Hello and welcome to cross talk theyre all things are considered on fuel about the 1st president ial debates exhibit lots of like but not much heat one can argue neither candidate last me neither one a perfect reflection of the nations politics with the campaign coming to an end do the debates have any meaningful impact is there such a thing as an undecided voter. To discuss this and more im joined by my guest leon jones in Panama City Beach she is an attorney and a former state director for Bernie Sanders and 2016 and in dallas we cross to george c. He is a businessman conservative political leader as well as a former Senior Advisor to marco rubios 2016 president ial campaign or across up rules in effect that means you can pick up any time you want and how its appreciated always go to georgia and dallas that as i said in my introduction you know one could argue maybe you want to agree with me one can argue that it was a dead heat neither side won either candidate won or lost in that debate but for very Different Reasons here i want to focus on this program the impacts of this debate and as it may impact the final results on november 3rd so obviously youre a supporter of donald trump how did he do in this debate. Well ive i agree that this was a hard one to analyze i think if you look at the Kennedy Nixon the bait which was outcome determinative in the rain in cardiff bay which is outcome determinative i dont think this ones going to do that i think it was so canny and so unprecedented in what i would say a negative stance even got the former vice pres in the United States calling the president a clown and race as the dog whistle blower and then youve got the president just being a bully the whole time and interrupting all its time and it was not a gentlemanly debate it was not a reasoned debate and im not sure whos going to change their minds if theres 5 to 15 percent of the electorate in the middle that might be willing to change their minds if they change their minds for Vice President biden i think theyre going to be even president strength in a negative sense and that its its overwhelming and its intimidating and its somewhat frightening and if they change their minds president trying i think its going to be because the vice former Vice President looks people and fumbles around sometimes and they want somebody strong and clearly in control of his faculties in the president in the oval office again but it depends on how they perceive mans behavior and it was very stirring and it was hard to watch even though it was like watching a train wreck replaying crash thats an understatement it was hard to watch i mean i obviously because i live in so many different time zones away. I saw the reporting of it and i had to stop many many times to get through it many times it was done i mean it that i was also wrestling ok in bad form ok in my opinion go ahead. It was cringe worthy it was truly truly cringe worthy and it was embarrassing as an american it was embarrassing i dont care which side of the aisle youre on i had hoped as a democrat that biden would have come in prepared this is not unusual for donald trump to interrupt its not unusual for him to go off topic and so i had hoped that President Biden would have been prepared for that and simply stuck to the important part that the american wants to hear the policy issues yet he still got pulled down ensued outruns mud pit and the name calling and even even saying shit that bothers me right to speak in front of childrens classes all the time and if you accidentally say set up an Elementary School class has they will tell you shut up is a bad word so we can even have our children watch this debate to get a good example of what american politics is supposed to be abaft and honestly i would have to say that both sides were losers and this one i dont think anyone would have swayed either side the only people who may have been sway are people who say listen i dont want to vote im not a normal voter but i do this now because they think theyre going to court the election if im going to get involved and i think that they were convinced to stay on the sidelines yet again i think that that is probably the most important observation that ive heard from anyone looking at these debates its not the partisans its the people it is it worthwhile and i think youre spot on on that point there but you know george lets lets kind of go break it down a bit here i mean one of the things i took away the weekend we can talk about p. P. I. Trips i dont think it really adds to our conversation here but i mean one thing to trump you know when when when the moderator chris was asked you know about packing the court i mean that was unbiased part that was an obvious obvious deflection he wouldnt answer hes been asked for any during the debate he wouldnt ask and trump was absolutely right because binds terrifying to the left his the progressives you sarah. 5 of them ok he needs to get across the line with them now and the issue of courts are very very important for very strong conservatives and for progressives here and i thought that that was a real weak point because i would like to think that the 3 of us are far more interested in policy then the the the personalities that that media love because they get ratings but i mean you know on the policy issue you know biden deflected very very often go ahead. Well they both did actually its an interesting election is typically in the primaries the candidates tacked are the rider far left of name which are either in and then in the in the in the general election they move into the center trying to appeal to independents and moderates and people who dont track politics all the time and last night they did both of them did exactly the opposite of the former Vice President as you said basically refused to say he went back to court in the end he also did a lot of the law and order baiting that trumped bush in any but the president also when he was asked what is read so you can damn White Supremacy groups and our right time actors he said ill give him who ever you want but then he didnt express leitz do that so he dodged that when do i was stunned by bo i understand what youre trying to do but i think this is appealing to the 10 to 15 percent of both parties that are highly partisan way off in the in the rush so to speak and not the fair way of american policy views i dont think its good for the country and i dont think its back to be either. Dont you think you think it moves the needle when it comes to thin november i mean it has to be a very and my introduction is that are there any undecided voters out there i think you know considering not is because im highly critical of by and his campaign for its lack of substance here and their campaign isnt actually very effective because theyre focusing it all on trump but in my disc when you become president i really would like to know what he stands for we really joked ok so what about the undecided oh hey. So you know i think this election does a lot to say that we dont know what bind is for weve seen him in the white house for 8 years weve seen him in congress for so many years you know what biden is for he is for expanding health care he is for ensuring that theres Public Safety on the streets i think that it is clear i dont think he has to reestablish his record at this point we know who he is and hes trying to tie himself with president obama bethink for the undecideds again i think its going to be this push to actually get out there President Trump made the most important statement in the opening last night he said elections have consequences nicoles lawyer they do well when he said theyre related to the courts you know i was a quarter of Bernie Sanders in the 2016 election and it was really hard after the primary to convince the burnie supporters who are who are condit i want them as undecided they were angry decided right and they were voting against the establishment of the Democratic Party i think that this last night i spoke to them spoke to them to see what we did in 2016 by being so angry at Hillary Clinton we simply cant afford it now because elections have consequences and the courts right now its one of the biggest consequences that i think its finally starting to make sense to people who didnt realize how important it is to look at you know george like one of the things ive been very critical of the of the trunk and ministration and its campaign during this medical help crisis here and the deep recession that so many people are feeling is that the trip in ministration could have very easily gone to the left of joe biden but they refused to do it where is congress where are they right now theyre not at work ok and theres a lot millions tens of millions of people suffering donald trump you know maybe executive order on pharma like you know i gave 2 days before the debate you know 30. Some days before the election and it was a really lame attempt to say this is what health care is i mean again from a policy point of view i think both parties have failed the middle class miserably in dealing with the pen demick in dealing with the economic turndown and this was a golden opportunity for trump but he still surrounds himself with all the wrong people from wall street these libertarians that make such a small part of the party its a missed opportunity and i and i said we saw it with both conventions we were the middle class they were largely absent it was for special interests i dont react to that george. Yeah i disagree with that i think the Republican Convention highlighted africanamericans and hispanic americans and recent immigrants and lots of people that dont love wall street or the far right libertarian type fringe i thought it was actually very well. I would compliment Chris Wallace hes been having with a ring of fire for his role in the last lateral one thing he didnt attack the president on health care because the president and his team dont have a Health Care Plan and that was. I would also come back the elections have consequences come at the lead onset i totally agree with that and im i i would say that in 2016 that the republicans control the senate and they have the ability to not merit borrowing on consent because they control the senate and this time around the president won the election when he 60 and hes got the rights of nominating a justice and the senates got the right to hear testimony and vote on it thats the way that elections work in the its the way it is and if democrats want that ability they need to win this election and they need to win back the senate is someone that i would make one mother other comment its a sad point in our American Life that any calling barry is probably going to win. Appointments and sprinklers just as 551495048 as if she had been a nominee with rick Bader Ginsburg was was nominated or when Sandra Day Oconnor was nominated shed be and night by fire a 1000 shes just exceptional and shes all american shes exceptional and you can disagree with her on on on the war her judicial temperament the way she handles or her court room but shes brilliant and shes very principled and she will any and every person if we look at the exit vice and consent the question is she a good jurists its not her politics thats what weve gotten to and thats what weve got a place where we are because we look to the courts to decide things when it was congress in congress their collective group of cowards just throw it up to the court throw it up to par they dont want to catch anyone you know thats one. Happening here all right. What i want to push back a little bit and been actually kind of agreeing with you is that you know with the convention i think both conventions missed the class issue both and i and i criticize republicans they played i get it terry paul identity politics and you may disagree with me but i find that to be a dead end because class is a very important issue and i guess you dont hear very many conservatives like me talk about class very much go ahead before we go to the break i agree 100 percent you know simply having i did politics have minorities actually convention does not mean youre talking about class there are a lot of middle and lower class white americans that he should be looking to 750. 00 as the federal income tax that our president pays when people who are on welfare who are on full welfare can pay more than that and federal taxes in a year says a lot you know it was funny you know i think about this as history repeats itself during the revolutionary war and making up america that order to split poor whites and africanamericans who were here whether they were free or in slave the rich white land owning americans made the poor whites feel like they were special right leg up like i hold that we have to go to heartbreak after heartbreak well continue our discussion on the 1st president ial debates they are. Going. Is youll be a reflection of reality. In a world transformed. What will make you feel safe from. Tyson nation full community. Are you going the right way or are you being so. Direct. What is true what is faith. In the world corrupted you need to descend. To join us on the death. Forum akin to shall i say. Welcome back to crossfire your all things are considered im Peter Lavelle to remind you were discussing the 1st president ial debate. Ok lets go back to lou dobbs when you were making a point before i went to break please go right ahead so the point is that its been the foundation of American History that we separate the poor from the rich right and the way they do that is that the rich make the poor not focus on the real issues at the convention they do not focus on the real issues how much are you paying your tax dollars how much is your Health Care Cost how much money are you getting back as a worker things stay the same where the minimum wage the federal minimum wage is still low these are issues that they did not focus on at either convention i agree with you wholeheartedly and they. Missed the boat and theyre missing a lot of americans and then their money in the wires for having these this infighting like we saw in the debate last night that dez not ever not a single question truly assure us what the middle class needs to hear coming out of the pandemic of asa works you know george i mean if you look at polls and its bipartisan you know its either the 12 or 3 issue is health care but both parties they want it they want trink they want to. Go on the margins of changing this adding this difficult theres no real im sorry but there is no serious conversation about health care done is absolutely right you dont like progressive friends on the program here is that if there was a time to think about health care it is now and its not being fought about theres so theres so many nos qualifications i really think there has to be a major rethink and as everyone likes to say reimagine it ok because this is the time to do it go ahead joe. Im going to come back to health care i want to address your middle class and lower middle class comments i disagree with you both on that i think trump won last time around because the anglo middle class lower middle class and poor voter in the midwest thought the Democratic Party had brains that didnt politics and abandon them and thats why they all voted for trump and i think this election i just believe it all ok i think it was just saying i didnt i was making i think i wouldnt you know it was the trade issue see the media missed it the democrats missed it it was trey and i want people understand your student trade policy it hurt them and you know what george lived on in her white people black people and brown people all people that hit ok im not we arent i would argue that. Trumps made some inroads with his bank you know africanamerican voters his karma not much but enough that maybe the election but i would argue the elections going to this time around whether those voters thats a brain youre ohio minnesota wisconsin michigan or it went with route last time or do it again this time around and if you look at some endorsement seems received the unions have been indorsing in the Police Forces and endorsing in all these groups that are traditionally very democratic so thats an interesting phenomenon to how but step back and forth is going to be a big factor backing up here i do think the democrats are taking note here much more seriously than republicans and i think most democrats youre active in their party want medicare for all and the problem with the seriousness of that proposal is that will bankrupt the country i wouldnt read it republicans and have not been serious on health care he you look at when they control the senate the house and the presidency and theyve been saying repeal and replace for 7 years else and they have no plan to do that and thats just thats an abomination thats terrible policy when paul ryan in charge of the house they should have a comprehensive plan that they are lies in is the worst why. Dont you even get me started going back to you know you know what you used to work rats. You know a little undone here the Current System is bankrupt the people left right and center ok so you know i find that to be on the point of scare tactics but both of you have said in the context of this debate in one and i in and it gives me hope the only hope is that there is a real mind and going on right now ok we have a progressive on the program that thinks they dont have a terry in politics those who are you have a conservative like me on the program that think we have to think about single payer if its these parties that are doing this ok donald trump ran as as a as an outsider ok he ran as a populist hes governed like jeb bush ok and then joe biden i would argue doesnt really have very very helpless strongly held views but he has this coalition he has to keep together and hes got his fingers crossed that the burning cross and i say that in a positive way will stick with them that there is a real life meant going on here and i think that this is an opportunity for all of this because the i cant say it on this television station that s show that we saw last night tells us that that are