Hope to see you again soon. When disaster strikes strong leadership to rebalance. And control are our leaders and how do they become that last one of the worlds most prolific thinkers on the psychology of leadership. Manfredi gets to free is a professor of Leadership Development organizational changes said in seattle Business School its really great to have you with us wow what amazing times to talk about leaderships but im going to start actually from a little behind so we like to think of idea leaders as being modest little selfless accommodating emotionally intelligent compassionate instead. In reality though ask just about anyone about their boss from hell right and the story goes that you will hear plenty about self centeredness that their rough their insensitive as leaders. Is it realistic to think that this gap between the ideal and the real realistic can be actually bridged i hope so otherwise not why they do what they do or something host martin i mean they may youre right. You know you dont need to be of narcissist but unfortunately too many leaders are really are from the bomb and look for the group its a charity to. The nice terms you should but you made it a sense of humanity and to see older stage no longer theyve been there and make it way sorry thats so it is and thats the specter we live actually its very Interesting Times across the pond then me because it focuses in a way its the largest social experiment ever done. No good. Now that number sanaa issue Condition One is that people become more reflective and say what kind of role do we need i mean at the moment. You know i look at the world and i didnt wonder many years ago before you were born and i have at this about science talked about how can a person in the erse so now people are more concerned of course about Global Warming and things like that there was also a movie rich in the sixtys its also of course in the time of the cold war it was. Dr strangelove people enough to sort its and i want to move about the danger of nuclear all across so its still there actually of in sync about Companies Like pakistan and north korea you dont get the warm feeling well so having their finger on the Nuclear Button then of course you have the terrorism because all over the place it is still there and there you have faults you know also in the case i know here quite well because its been so many times there is income inequality i mean you look at america its enormous fortune in europe right in the its much less and of course countries like poland and sweden its much more equal but when you have large income inequalities its an invitation for social disaster. And they have to pull them in and the way Different Countries have their arteries upon them in bad examples of course being countries like america. And also a country like india you know terrible way of dealing is it rich now that mescaline it is supposed to be people who dont from their mosque or you know demand growth from caracas totally that it was and how its its really a perfect storm and and well of course if you meet our leaders socially as you mentioned. You know who i have compassion and have some empathy instead of we have yes be no days of culture that is so people are big leaders. Who. Wish to believe. But lets be a little more precise because i would like to talk to you during this interview about leadership and different kinds of walks of lives but now weve touched upon World Leaders right the political leaders and youre saying this is the perfect storm and this perfect storm actually brings to the surface all the downfalls of the systems of the people who are actually having their countries masks are off i mean never has there been a time where everything has been so clear when they say the king is in a cave this is the time about the saying so. It seems like looking over. The world landscape of Political Leadership landscape the. Better were going and thats my next question thats my next question but if we talk about the kings that are naked right. And that has become obvious during the. It has a lot of people thinking that maybe they have the political elite that is heading the world great now lives in the old paradigm that doesnt correspond to the new problems that the world is facing and im not really only talking about the condemning the pandemic will go away in a year and a half hopefully there will be a look see and i mean every 100 years there is a condemning but im talking about the problems that it has brought to surface and the inability of the current political elite to deal with these new problems that just dont correspond that old political paradigm what kind of leaders do we need right now considering that we know more precisely what are the problems the world is facing now. Now you know certain things are not new and i think one of the the infineon there. The problem we always have is the greek factor nor the element of greed has been there so are the ages in that still there. And thats i think a fairly not so silent motivator the people behave the way they do i mean its really take the United States as an example even in there if you know if their interest communities are the most bursted they have the best education because obviously education is a way or looking so division believed to obamas miracles they still milked a vote for tong many of the rotor trump because of. It is f. And tasted done financially because of fairy shorts short wave or a short rate of looking ive been fair its very sad to hear there is no short term. Surge in the entertainment country which is divided and People Living safe communities guarded by whatever powers protect the goons who protect them which is a terrible ray of living his example. The great effect it has always been there and it is unfortunately has been has come very much to the fore coming back to your question and your early on to the question yourself and what you need is people who are current today ages and are dealing to face reality as all the problems by the way that we live now in an age or for the social media has no meaning or its effect and you know it and thus is no stranger to that by the way in the distribution effect or its and what about the world has become mosty in that and its there quite unfortunate that you start to get from she obviously a lot of people that ive spoken to said you know when things like condemn except that right where when theres so much uncertainty and no one has the answers you can be the most experienced leader and you can be very smart. And you can be married talented but ls you have Emotional Intelligence and that accomplices a lot of other traits within itself for instance empathy and out of today theres no way you can lead a nation out of crisis like program like would you agree with us would you agree that Something LikeEmotional Intelligence is a must have for a good leader during the times of crisis like this the 1st thing you have to know what are your strengths and weaknesses you can do it all leadership is really a team sport and fortunate tom to give that example because i like the example and so im also number psychoanalyst tomorrow the life of 2 heads are mentioned professor and psychoanalyst he is the example of a school to mimic the narcissist in a malignant narcissist is basically ive written quite a bit about to mention the process of so you know i can believe in the people because sicko machine really is as so he basically has made it seems is he is so insecure or that its all about him it would never be about its always about him something about him and the 2nd seeing his face indicative to anybody whos not raise him is against him or do anything to crush the prince yes to with it is of course going to be interesting because of this election because he cannot lose his mind so he has to find all different ways to find excuses not to so thats but coming back to executives you know the 1st thing i tried to do in my going back to your question about Emotional Intelligence is the question of no guy self. And to understand their strengths and weaknesses so many executives dont know him self they dont know right to do more to do the sentencing is that very often and bossy is a very good example actually given the power of this. Is kind of remarkable if you think of our community and seems like thats in the past but theres an enormous amount of or be used to authority so or this great tendency for other greek. Breeze people become too full of themselves and nobody can push them back because. Case of course also on top. So death and and that is also door to self destruction so it was my surprise that now people many people have a tendency to selfdestruct in a leadership position unless you have a treat if you take a Corporate Culture where people have a healthy disrespect for their boss but its not so easy and particularly in the last year ive done quite some work there is organizations and organ but our this and the 2nd sing would always surprises me or the source of that many executives dont get the best out of their people its really again they have no and then theres who is emotion tell it is and what i found very noticeable after the 1st week in my program it was 4 weeks over a year and the 1st thing you dont know to get people they never had a serious conversation is that they have never listened to them so thats what they do is start to have some conversation is that the other thing has to do is as i said the other ship is a team sport and since you can do everything you should focus on the soon shooter and you should find people who can compensate for listening to you not good at it and so i was they give me a somewhat neurotic and i make something out of the short time and just be in my work at n. C. R. Ive been trying to buy them yet and coach so are 2 really and its always surprises me when you look at exec a leadership in organizations that people spend millions bence of millions of dollars or whatever yours whatever id systems things like that but they are able to aligned. And that cost more money because you get terrified to better me as all this grand schemes people are multiplying matter that take a short break right now where were back well continue talking to a man fred katz to freres unless a political thinker is on the psychology of leadership talking about what kind of leaders as the world that needs today stay with us. Or. Are. Is your media a reflection of reality. In a world transformed. What will make you feel safe from. Isolation full community. Are you going the right way or are you being led to. Direct. What is true what is faith. In the world corrupted you need to descend. To join us in the depths. In the shallowness. Really. Need much needed help with. Just that hamas. Is an awful lot in common im old but im also the most amazing knows ive been a kid who says he plays not emotional when i meet. His compass he most people almost come piano screaming nobody goes from him didnt you notice his conclusion he has put oh you little to i called. Him a time and im going to hit a thief honest enough to see. You i dont know you kind of the most beautiful. Little kid. Until they. Come to your list. So you know men to get. And were back with manfred katz to for a year as a lisick thinker on the psychology of leadership manfred correct me if im wrong but what i see the real life is that the vast majority of leaders whether its c. E. O. s of corporations whether its hads of states whether its you know just the heads of little Small Companies doesnt matter they have the traits. That good guys dont have you know because good guys always finish last i mean we talk about trumping. Narcissism but a lot of people who actually get to power are of power hungry are narcissistic are pushy they do lakes sort of go over other peoples heads to get where they want and thats why their leaders and other good guys with compassion and Emotional Intelligence always stay behind i want peace in the article about we should have leaders for life and then you know road which was a very cynical article because leaders for life are not it doesnt make make for stability of the country and thats and also in the tread organization so. In the short term those people might come up but i think one should do everything to have some checks and balances to prevent those people to come to the fore destination for example ive developed many kinds of c 60 questionnaires that you basically tease out the narcissus i mean the dr lloyd the commerce of nurses is part of the deal better rate or is the question of access always you need to be narcissistic was a need for self as the excess that people can push back then you can tell a person you from. Shit you know that kind of saying you know stop it this doesnt go anywhere but i think when you have too much obedience to Authority People are in luck to you and many of the leaders who talk about me from the echo chamber i mean they know what they think they want the right want are the interest of other people think thats i think important to me you learn you dont learn by yes tell yourself the same saying so this day in age you can have some all to craft to take adventurous you can also say maybe we should have somewhat of a different view of a you have to be somewhat result of hope and thats partially was really Younger Generation i mean i i im not going to are in sync about Global Warming im too old to really come here not too old and i dont feel at all but i mean im not i dont know going to necessarily affect be affected so much by that but then i think about my children and grandchildren they are and so you can see that you know that the Younger Generation may be the company isnt it and is actually the invention of the jungle generation because the Younger Generation was so affected my age and more that im just gets affected by he had maybe thats what it is to find and get all those people out of the way who have certain ways of looking at sinks but lets say you leave a couple of centuries ago and you tater i dont know its a prince of orange and he has led the revolt yet now. What do you have to change one of the essential Leadership Qualities you will try to grow in him. No i guess what im saying we talk about certain qualities one is to have certain amount of selfconfidence i had one executive who was who runs a Large Media Company who told me thank you thank you for being in the seminar because i had the courage that she doesnt have before it was a very good person to make some tough decisions nonsinging im not going to fight anybody that was actually its a tough decision or of course record is much easier to in bring in ben if you fight i said he said im not going to fight anybody and im going to really hope to hospitals also where have i i had i take a salary cuts theres the whole top executives at say that say thats the courage to have courage to do certain saying and to stand up and say this is about it and you know be it everybody whos crazy also feel awful but you can decide things are courage muscle to say this this cannot stand now so you have selfconfidence i mean when you look at the person is basically a child who never grew up and so insecure or needs all the time be enforcement so to be to be more aware what you can do and can do coming back to strength and weaknesses it also going back to your comments about the care that you have a sense of compassion now you have to do it it was in moderation because if you had to do and bess if you dont bet anymore everything is you can that he or she can understand everything but that might be paralyzed what about cold blooded ness is something a good leader should also balancing himself. Now that has to do with the balance of compassion. Your menu i mean ill go away what i mean because when you see big leaders they need to take Big Decisions and even though its for the good of the people in the long run it doesnt necessarily come across that way to the people right then and there and people sometimes have to suffer for big reforms for a certain period of time 5 years 10 years thats a big chunk of time for one persons life so these people are faced with assad to be compassionate no go with the reforms and you know let the people be happy now or be cold blooded go along with the reform whether its a big c. E. O. Of a company or president of a country but in the longer on even though people are unhappy now with the reforms it will be better off for the country or for the company i see it not as. A blogger needs to see this cribbing create some tension though you have to make difficult decision because they the right decision as far as you can see and thats it isnt supposed to be our elected but when you elect people who just cater to division to believe like you see in brazil they see mean there is this kind of discount of person or i mean theyre coming back to america they dont have the competence to make those decisions if they really realized. They would say they are not stupid people dont realize that they would surround himself with people who would advise they look at a populist like come back to america is a tribute example of what were creating you was nectar and he also knew very he was out of his debts so he made you know he had pretty decent advice thats not the case when you look at the present situation american so bloodedness is the ability i same to take some distance and be able to explain what youre saying just in the better investment nation and there was a man called out in the hour who was the german. Youre there in germany comes later he said a thick skin is a gift of growth unfortunately as only that at times you have need to have a 6 again because you can never please everybody if you want to please everybody you sell ice cream thats my advice is there like a natural the wide and people between leaders and followers and some people are destined to lead and others follow or anyone really can grow a leader in himself if he wants to thats a very interesting question and its not easy to answer because some people feel much better i mean in case of crisis we have a tendency to go back to whats called the dependency assumption be looking for someone who can lead us you know those as always already from politics times you know