Friend of the scottish football receiving general brian takes up the story with feliks. Jed when you came across this figure of Andrew Watson was it was he some of the you knew that much about before the you were looking at a museum in the Foundation Stones of of scottish football and what. Well to my shame i knew absolutely nothing about him and i was working on the Feasibility Study in 1990 we brought me to the queens parks archives at the old hand and i was looking through a book of old photos of queens park in Scotland Team 7880 s. And there was this photo of the Scotland Team in their blue and white hoops and there was a black man stood at the back now has what i thought i was a football historian i knew the author wharton of preston north end in the late 1980 s. Was the 1st black footballer so i actually refused to believe my own ah yes there was this footballer now there were 3 or 4 more pitches of him playing for scotland against wales playing for queens park who were at the time of the greatest Football Team in the world but it took me 9 years to prove that Andrew Watson was the worlds 1st black International Football captain before i could go to the press so lets get tickets for who this man was so is born an 850 s. British guiana as far as a sugar plant or not not a slave for others is sometimes said because slavery had been long since abolished by then is brought to school it was. A local gagnes women were as father and mother and his father brought him to school in england and then it seems to be the key point was the he started studies at glasgow university. But was this fair and watson fast phoneys football well i think im fairly certain that will be true they returned to london at 1st and lived in very very stylish surroundings in chandos street where theyre with about 10000000 the houses that watson lived in but his father died in 1969 leaving him the equivalent of 3 or 4000000 and he returned to glasgow where he spent a year studying and amongst other people north kelvin and this is when we 1st see him playing and he becomes a match secretary for what was then a very well known team. So he as i young man will have learnt the way of the scotch professor that intelligent logical scientific passing and running and of course he was a sporting genius and he took the scotch professor game to its highest level. Now lets turn to the scene of his greatest triumph sword march 8th in 81. 00 under whats the rise with the Scotland Team at the oval then the hormones of english football captains aside and leads the team to this extraordinary triumph of sex one the how did that come about the Scotland Team beat england 61 and then a form of english football because scotland played a game that was entirely different to the english game the english game which was a game of the social eat in southern england was a tripling game that came out of Public Schools and each job was to show that you did not need anybody you are individual and you are ready to run the empire its amazing that this was the attitude now scotland being a different country with a different culture for at least 500 years had played a passing and running game every week in most of the churchyards in streets of scottish towns so the Scotland Team headed by watson had come down and were playing a game where they passed and moved the ball which required thought which required practice which in england was tantamount to cheating if you practiced you were a cheat because the gentleman amateur turned up and deliberately show that they werent much but that would of course 61 and the following in 51 was such a vicious blow to england that i had to learn how to try and copy this game that watson was leading so whats this career event or National Terms a was sex one against england at the oval the next year 51 for scotland against thing when. Back back in scotland and also a match against wales which i also think was a 51 victory so it will help us make them because he only got 3 caps how can some of the plays in the team which wins the game 6151 and 51 only get 3 International Caps what happened to unfortunately he moved to england in 1082 after the 51 game and anglo scots didnt get picked so weve already established watson was was Successful International captain scott of all time again the game against thing when it was the worlds 1st black football administrator in queens park and part grove was he at the far what was 1st black professional football as he as he pursued his career in england well the evidence is starting to mount because. In the media 886 playing for london swear see pilgrims brentwood london caledonians he then moves to liverpool and turns out for brutal in 1907 now an unknown anonymous person seen an object sion to the english f. A. That watson is being paid because at that point they had accepted professionalism but under strict rules like you had to live within 6 miles of the team you played for so they got away with it and i have a thought that they got away with it because watson was able to rely on his upper class pals in the english football establishment who would certainly not of wanted to embarrass Sandra Watson but i am going to say he was the worlds 1st black professional footballer. Under whats and how would you put of in the world pantheon of football i mean we could just say that in the 19th century he was as influential as well lets say pelley in the 20th century no disrespect to palin is it genius football. But thats where his influence sense im sure watson played at a time when england in 1902 had to it to be that their game was wrong and they set out to copy Andrew Watson and the other scotch professes this game went through england and through scots and english people who followed them went around the world he is easily and by far the most important black sportsman of the 19th century and probably the greatest black footballer of all time join us after the big where we continue the story of andy whats new and look at how the influence of black classes helped transform attitudes towards visit them among that ball fine china thing. Americans love by and. This was a fundamental part of how our Political Leadership and our country at large understood the bargain you get a hope and then you know rebel right as the things you dont revolt if you have a stake in the system. To be really interesting back and think about the longer deeper history housings men in the United States not just that question of the American Dream but the bigger question of who the dream is and for. An entire village in alaska. If another country trying to wipe out an american town. We do everything in our power to protect the. Water then escaping Climate Change poses the same threat right now alaska seems some of the fastest coastal erosion in the world we lost about 30 feet. 35 feet of ground in just about 3 months while we were measuring. It is fast and that means the river is 35. 00 closer to the town than was for i dont think were part of the 1st for. You know when im going to be out there saying i dont think about it at all many grown men now need our power. I kind of where i want to. Go step back and not think now one think its hard enough. Members of the african mafias own ways theyre safe and quick passage to europe but once they. Leave they are enslaved they count speech europe. Will not some of them leave your mama not accident you know it already and if you need to get it out it means. From the cinquera mainly out of the they sold the. Lease its all gone court of the united. With the persona that i cant even find all this can be the norm you lynn. Welcome back at this statement grinded march 18th 81 and 2 watson laid his skull insights told of markup of football victory alex is in discussion with g. I. Joe bryan and then john barnes of liverpool and england what happened to our new works and after his footballing career weve been to his his grave side and in richmond what happened to underworld simplicity go after football. Well after football he operated out of liverpool as a marine engine in for 20 years that that was his job he eventually moved to kew probably a mile north pole where he is buried and as happens he was forgotten if you can remember one great player per year for 50 years youre doing well so when he was buried it went entirely unnoticed because by the 1920 s. Everybody just knew that england invented everything he had been forgotten now if we were to understand the truth of Andrew Watson we went then have to accept that Andrew Watson was one of the inventors of the modern game now seeing as he is an english that couldnt be allowed but jet of course as the work of yourself and others under whats is experiencing something of a revival of the mural that you mentioned and glasgow tell us about how the importance of under watson is now being revived the whole of that his name will soon be on the lips of a scottish child knowing whether what a great football influence he was im hoping that in the next 5 years there isnt a child in scotland who isnt proud to venture watson but the road is long and hard because he has to be placed into the curriculum hundreds of media reports mean to be done on him and they need to be repeated year on year we then need to move on and push forward the truth that scotland invented the modern world game now thats going to be a very very difficult thing its going to take us i would say 20 years before people start accepting that there is an argument but obviously with my book and the work of what is becoming more and more people around the world we will eventually succeed in placing and you watson in the pantheon of world football. Unless they have a young black kids and scotland important might it be to them to know that the country was kept by this amazing player way back in 1008 is wouldnt that be an extraordinary thing to understand and to know about skull. Absolutely. I always tell the children that like them im on a job terms and spans ive moved to glasgow 30 years ago ive been accepted and im able to say and look at Andrew Watson for those of you a plaque and have a right in the last few years heres a man of whom you can be proud and he shows you that you can succeed because you will be accepted gentle brian thank you so much for telling us some of the remarkable story of underworlds thank you. Now exactly 100 years after Andrew Watson became the worlds 1st of a black professional footballer signed for the masses i deem a bootle young man called john bob sign for Liverpool Football Club john welcome to the alex aman show thank you very much for the pleasure under what a given i have the figure of this extraordinary story of a black captain of scotland led his team into sex one flashing a final and that was lost from the the annals of football history why do you think that is i obviously was on your come on the show i did some research on it i did know about scotlands 61 section of england as all english men do but to know that there was a black man davis got into the time of course not why was a loss of the annals of history was because of course a lot of people you can go back to someone for example like tony collins who was the 1st manager back manager from rochdale who won the league cup that no one knows about we assume that thats what were starting with the band isnt and that manager started with in the eightys or ninetys whatever the 1st manager came up so of course we dont know much about the historical aspect of so many blacks think its in history and thats why its very interesting to really delve into so 100 years after the brutal side and watson you became only that the 2nd black player to sign for Liverpool Football Club how much of that racism did you encounter in that period of the eightys ninetys. Well of course people remember me citing political of the iconic picture of me back in the bed on off the pitch against everton when i dont even remember doing it because of course back then a bit out of the field was a regular occurrence so while it was a high profile game difficult r. C. M. Its on me to make a big deal about it i was in 1908 from 981 of us playing football that was a regular occurrence think it but they fought for it racism wasnt unique at that time it wasnt even discussed it was a part of everyday life not just in football but in society whereby people were racially abused and no one batted an eyelid so of course football behind Media Attention very high profile people made a big deal about how terrible it was but my thing even back then was about how racism in society is much worse in terms of what the average black men go through rather than me as a professional footballer earning the money im earning to the life im living who make it a race to be on a football field but side of racism and invisible when i was kids were thrown a black people every day of their lives just a society day late and yet that dominated that when they went to jobs the lack of opportunities and i thought im much more interested in it and stepping out rather than complaining about a few races in bulgaria or some races football fans and thats really what im now interested in doing a new watson in the 880. 00 s. Of a sect of queens park then beginning to club in the world he was the 1st black football administrators so what does that tell us about the the lack of progress in 150 years its speaks volumes as does tony collins the 1st black manager in england who managed rochdale not a big club the 6 years and won the league cup but he wasnt particularly successful at rochdale however apart from the league cup however he stated its off a 7 years so that tells you that although youre black and you are not necessarily being successful but they they judge you based on your ability because paradoxically the letter when there werent that many black people racism was less. The more black people that you have in any kind of street there is more racism because theres only a certain amount of elite people and if you have more people who want a slice of the pie to get into these positions that it then becomes of threats to the status quo so while you have wanted to black people the racism doesnt have to be great because if there is they dont pose a threat to the status quo because it wanted to have them when there are hundreds of them they pose a threat so therefore a narrative has to be then be spoken about about the 2 groups but tensional 2 groups worth there was no discussion about and so whats its potential because its there to be c. Or tony collins perception because that doesnt pose a threat to the exodus the status quo that we dont want sets paradoxically theres much more racism in countries where there are more black people rather than less and much more the lack of opportunity for those people because of that situation but im 1st have the story if i knew whats and just a few months ago it as Something Like most scots amassed in football as a child i felt really angry that id never have this guy. And was cheated that apart from the sex one freshening of england which i dont like to hear about but cheated that i had to have this great scottish play your even just a victory out of i mean you know youre not of the late on that think thats rushing and he said that with such vigor and such meaning it was a 61 it was 61 beats and. Those who are disallowed goals for scotland as well and for their benefit. But it. How do you think it would have acted as an. Inspiration role model for young black kids to know that the scottish captain and that triumph was under what some would that in itself be an inspiration for youngsters very possibly of course black History Month is about empowering black young young black kids to understand that their history is varied and you have exceeded black people in the past from a intellectual point to the scientific point of view who have done great things but this is what would be good for a long while weve been trying to influence young black kids to see their heroes not just as boxers or football as a scene as intellectual seems a scientist so thats what we do more importantly black History Month should be for black people should be for white people because white people have to understand the history of black excellence from an intellectual and moral point of view we need White Society to see if theres equal not for us to see ourselves as equal because i know are equal so the inspiration that i can give is fine but once again what we also have to do to have to say yes there was the most intelligent man in the world from a scientific or intellectual point to be was a black man i mean he wasnt but if you say that thats fine i was going to help young black kids now if they can get a good indication if theyre going to get stabbed by the time theyre 40 because of the inner cities that they live in whereby we have to solve that problem to give equality to underprivileged kids and how do you scotland as an example because when as you well know there was a huge night crime problem in glasgow many years ago 15 years ago whatever it was and it was seen as a in a city problem where i had to tackle the inequality in the cities for these young kids that was fine what is happening in london is not seen as an its a problem seen as a black problem. And of course the more you have this narrative that its back its getting back its well it was in scotland it was in the white problem and you were to see white unworthiness or whites delinquency was in a city problem and john you came as a lad from jamaica thing went but if you could have played for scotland if the Scottish Football Association of moved a bit quicker is that true would you reject instead of playing for scotland if theyd just go off the back saves and sighted you up i could have played for scotland northern out of nowhere else because my dad was a diplomat hes a colonel in the army whats a sad person x. Or talk about stimulus was that he was his classmate so im from