The muslims themselves. In them. They dont get there, check out plenty more news stories we have covered for you at our website. Think why does someone do that right . Thats what everybody wants to know and they laugh or have achieved their quota of those play where there was played. Well, because i think most people would like to think i would like to think to myself, i would never do that. But did you ever say to yourself down, why did i tell these life not why i tell these lies that i started a new rooted in religion that exist im, i really did not exist as i would just are. I just throw going to there probably exist to my world just just for hurt. There are, i says of the i the new form with the model of the wood, with the model of the mire. That was a, it was a real boy just to go home or yes, my way normal i was, were it was going to be true, or it was world which were all choices shop or were from savannah, georgia right now, here she is. See the corners in there . Would you bring that phone cord in . Somebody up, you know, not only did cream bring met him, but he brought it in and drop the other. Another portion of it in the purse. Thats yes, thats absurd. I bet what happens here is she says he knocks her out on the Kitchen Floor and theyre like, it doesnt work, doesnt work, renee, not good enough, didnt didnt he do it in the living room . Look at this photo, look, i want to see you. Oh yeah, it certainly doesnt fit with renees. No concise. No. I want to see a real place and i think you heard that some wishful thinking. Like i dont think there is a real police report. I mean, i just dont maybe they sort of knew there were days. Confession was not so good or not true. And so they didnt really want kareem because they didnt really believe that he was there. That or that it happened like that. And so if they get him in there and then they could end up with nobody one taking on a case like renes, the danger is always the case, evidence or other crime scene evidence has not been preserved. If theres no crime scene evidence, or case evidence, then theres nothing to d. N. A. Test. And if theres no d. N. A. To test, its extremely hard to prove that your client is innocent. Thats really the issue here, right . In renes case, it was a very bloody crime scene. The murder weapon was never found, but there was a purse had a bloody fingerprint in it, and there was a drawer in the bedroom with a bloody fingerprint on it. The d. N. A. Tested some things, but not those. And the only d. N. A. Found at the crime scene was the victims if you know, i think out of 41. 00 pieces of evidence, they tested 7 for d. N. A. And so you know, theyre in trouble right at trial because you cant get convicted on your own confession alone. So they go and they try to round up, jailhouse snitches, but only one worked so it was her confession, and a jailhouse snitch, which is so common in false confession cases and you have the confession and then the extra evidence because theres no physical evidence corroboration to the confession snitch . No, i have no particular. Oh oh ok. Do you mind if i said this is all good. Thats ok. You know. Oh it was before the bible. Or do you remember interacting with any of the Police Officers back then . As june was named was very, it is my impression looking back that thank you all here. Shes guilty. Shes guilty and eagle, make sure you know you can sometimes it was so now we know i was my d. N. A. So somebody yelled out. It was one of the things thats one of the things that we hope to be able to do is retest. The d. N. A. Theres knowledge, she has no chance. Some cases we get and we look at them. And we, even if we believe the person is innocent, we can say, well, i mean, theres just for a variety of reasons, nothing we can do. Theres something we can do here, but not a lot of people get exonerated. Real solutions really are useless. You know, the blow is this work out i just want to talk to you because i know how being were now trying to get her out. Can we come by one driver. Just talk to me. You so much. We need to ask close the most important thing. I mean to so how she was to her what her interactions with the police were with young with on drugs. You know, in our lives. We really and he didnt have a car with a promise you anything like where youre going to get out to let me out when you write great. I want to get out and so you actually did get out. Thank you. We really appreciate it. Ok. So thats good, thats helpful. Lets talk about lorenzo montoya. 3 years on 1 pm. Oh, time was right now is why you 2 were long really didnt, you know, there were there were dan burton being interviewed a lot and so on the morning we render montoya was arrested in the year 2000 and accused of a murder of a young schoolteacher in denver, hes 14 years old friends when this happened and he is tiny, like maybe 110. 00 pounds, very young, a one year older. The overlap between meltzer and lorenzo is amount of they tell him theres these videotapes that show him abusing children, which there arent in lorenzos. They actually go as far as to have him take his shoes off and they do this whole charade where this very angry cop comes back in with the shoe and says, well, im a shoe print expert. And your shoe is the print at the crime scene. That was untrue. You got to be spent on right . To get up there as it is, you can pull the day. You are not rest until we are. It is going to happen. Weve got one. Window g. R. We are there. So you the 3rd are there, knows where the others are until you are there. Even if you have no idea where you bury your friends, alive. Weve done it every day. If you were there, were going to find out. Now thats interesting. He didnt say we had your blood, we had your saliva. He said we have that to be tested. Basically, right. There is evaluations. The moment is hot political issue well be in the United States police a, permitted to lie about evidence and say right out think long and fast about that is a shocking discovery to most people. Most western countries dont permit it. The u. S. Supreme Court Permits it. So consequently you have 2 detectives making it seem as if we have independent evidence. They sometimes will get very specific about what that evidence is. Tell yes, the you are involved in something. Theyve already started that same thing process. And the mother already has believe it was a pandemic. No, certainly no borders and is blind to nationalities as American People to be. We dont look like seeing the whole world needs to be judged as common. Every crisis like this mr. Until we can do better. We should everyone is contributing way, but we also know that this crisis will not go on forever. The challenges create with the response has been must so many good people are helping us. It makes us feel very proud that we are in it together. This is a story of women, women with troubled histories and complex court cases. You know out there who are not the person that the cheesiness and they are considered the most dangerous of criminals. Shes in a still probably off 23 hours of the day. Tell me that its not enough punishment. World of women on death row on our team. And zillah going to see both of you dead already disabled it isnt it . Is it true that the brain issues that you need to show me that even better to savor it . So you did you mean mistake . So he just introduced the word mistake. Hes about to develop this theme that enables lorenzo to admit some degree of involvement while minimizing his own role. Its part of a package of techniques that in which you communicate to is suspect that i think youre a good person. I understand what youve been through. I sympathize with what youve been through. Often you hear normalizing statements like, you know water. If i were in your situation, i would have done the same thing. And all by the way, i dont think you intended to do this. I think it was an accident or maybe your friends put you up to it or maybe you were provoked me to feel that it was red zone. I dont do that. I have done it. I did want to jack the car and it went bad. Did the communication moves in one direction, it is designed to leave the person the suspect. Think the police dont think this is such a big deal. And therefore be treated with leniency. Ok, so one of my choices, either i can be the accomplice who refuses to speak, or i can admit to what they want me to admit to, given all of the minimisation that theyve given me and enjoy the benefit of that. Who are going to go . You know, how do you press theyre going to do that big look at how much they have communicated already. He now knows so much about this crime that whether he was there or had anything to do with it or not, he now knows enough about it to give you a description. So why are you here . Were here at sleaze house wrestle, you see things in the computer here, 1st nature. G. R. Who kicks you in the head. Of course the building a story for him to tell or is it, you know, a great ridge those shoes wrote part of the drake shoes. Brazill position. Your job is just right. Hes now being set up so that when hes ready to give a statement, he knows exactly what that statement should convey that. Again, you know, hes kicked in the head shoe dragging her through the blood. Hes got it all. So later a judge and the jury is going to watch the final confession and theyre going to be so impressed and unable to look past that because they keep on asking themselves what happened. You know, those things if he was in there, right . Stare me down. You leave that up. I just want your prior 5 minutes. You wait it up, you know, youre not going home tonight. I can guarantee you that. And they do not put you in Juvenile Hall or her, which will be boys, you know, talk now or say goodbye to your mom. Its a pretty clear and your cousin and your sister. It your goal and your life. Is you ready to do what kim and in this person do results of the situation. Anything i guess you could hold out rank for everyone. You just fall down doesnt everybody have a breaking point . So why must he was in prison for 14 years. So he got out at 28, he was in solitary confinement for 4 years because when he goes into a grown up prison, hes 14 and he cant be in with the general population. So he goes to solitary confinement for 4 years, for 14. 00 to 18. 00. Lorenzo was exonerated, and we have a similar right suit pending for him. And the opposition are, you know, theyre, theyre moving to have the case dismissed based on qualified immunity for that. And if youre being interrogated, youre not being interrogated because theyre just looking for information. Youre being interrogated because they want you to confess. So today we have a 1st on wrongful conviction, which is that we have a retired n. Y. P. D. Homicide detective, among other things. Current private investigator. Im pleased to introduce you j. Saltpeter. Welcome. Thank you very much and thank you for having me. So how the hell are we going to get this fixed . I believe the remedy seems like a long shot to me. Its going to take forever. Well, the beginning is basically that all, you know, all interrogations are video and audiotape. And i think that would stop at least 75 percent of his false confessions. I dont know how youre going to get away with it. Im a bit of criminal Justice System as a store looking at prosecutors from we be you which forced confessions faster with making laws that make prosecutor culpable. I mean thats the frustration with the civil rights work is that the prosecutors are always absolutely immune. It doesnt matter what they did, they could have gotten right and punched the kid in the face and they would, we cannot get any liability. Of course, with police are allowed to use trickery. And i know every defense attorney in the world is against that. So we talked about how out of these 4 cases, korean meltzer and lorenzo have all been exonerated by rene, you know, her case remains active and shes been in prison now for 20 years. Her son grew up without a mom. She, you know, he has, shes grandkids now that shes never met other than on a phone through glass. She said to heart attacks while shes been in prison and its probably not getting the right medical treatment for that. You know, were just hoping that you know, time could be on our side and we can get her out sooner rather than later. But i mean, she is a, a life thats wasted. Good morning. How are you . Ok, how is your heart out having a half hour track you are very mad i know. Have you done to play some together . Its ok. I understand some difficulty and i know that its taking a lot of time, but we dont want to mess it up. Rene, we all are only going to get one shot at this so just hang in there. I dont mean i promise you there will be an end and i hope its a good one, but there wont be an end years and developed thousands and ms of the disease newsmen. There are mares and do gooders and those who knew the system is missing. The biggest ones turns into will not do this thing. So you do believe you do that got close to some of them to us. He in any way blame himself for i think so. Patrolling and come 1st think they all knew that. But my own observations from talking to wrongfully convicted people is those who were wrongfully convicted by confession are not doing as well. The stigma they attach to themselves. They feel weak nytol, stupid. They dont understand what happened, how to come out to themselves. And even when the convictions overturned, if the reason they were convicted was a confession, as opposed to something else, the stigma that attached to the state, even after they were exonerated, right . People are not quite 100 percent. Sure, i get the confession is so powerful that even after its supposed to evaporate. So corey, today is hes living well, right. He got a huge settlement, but it doesnt take away those demons in his head. You know, hes, he was in from 16 to almost 30. So what are you now when you come out . Hes never going to have the mental peace and rest that you know, you and i can probably accomplish sometimes. But he has lost his whole family. Theres no relationship with them really. And thats something that then why p. B. In the city in the prosecutors took away from him, right . That money cant replace combatants in society. You dont. You dont know how to do it in cherry. You dont know what adored her. So it is sort of your brain with the morning star over here. Stalky johnno lingo, whatever journey may be. If im going to stand in the house, you know, from wonder being free. It really is. A problem that, you know is systemic, right . Its a problem that victimizes, a lot of people. You have the, the person who falls in compresses whose life is ruined. You have their family, whose lives are ruined. You have the victim. Theyre still alive and the victims family who think theyre getting justice, but theyre not questionable. And then you have multiple other problems that come from this main one being that by definition, when we walk up the wrong guy, we stop looking for the right guy. Its really a, its a, its a tremendous challenge. I think its a cultural problem. We need a whole societal education about this. Our criminal Justice System is based on the premise that its better for 10 guilty. People to go free than one innocent person to go to prison. Right. I mean, that is a fundamental concept of the american Justice System. But i think that the lying is one of the main things that over there somebody says, well i just guess the courts dont get it. Every story will false confessions, not just a story that gets into question, why in gods name did an innocent person confess to a crime. He or she didnt commit . Its a 2nd story. And 2nd story line is how come the prosecutor, the judge, the jury, the appeals all mr. Mir is now able to research actual cases, laboratory studies, field studies, and 100 plus years of basics like alter, tells you why the people about everything to know why the people about reality. You can change their perceptions and change their memories. 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