Transcripts For RT Going Underground 20240711

Celsius is unrealistic. But its very important to maintain what you would call the cold chain extremely important. Otherwise you are injecting people with substandard all the nature of the vaccine. Those are headlines. My colleague, nicky, aaron joins you next hour with a review of the top stories of the last 7 days coming up on our 2 international. It is now time for going underground, but in the u. K. And ireland is next. Stay with us. Were going underground, as the comparative success of different coronavirus responses Takes Center Stage in saudi arabia at the 15th summit of the g. 20, representing most of the World Economy coming up on the show. Will any of the g 20 countries bring up the worlds worst humanitarian crisis . Yemen when theyre hosted today by the saudi autocrats who bomb and blockade, it backed up by u. K. We speak to the man in the white, suitable custom martin bell, who was reported from war zones all over the world about the Mainstream Media blackout of a country facing the largest famine. The world has ever seen dispatches from the front line of nagornokarabakh, with legendary journalist, peter oborne. All of them all coming up in todays going underground for saudi arabia today plays host to a virtual g. 20 summit representing most of the World Economy. But while coronavirus will be at the top of the agenda, one of the worlds worst humanitarian crisis, the one in yemen, the one armed to the teeth by britain despite the evidence of war crimes. Joining me now is former british member of parliament and then reward reporter, now unicef. You can master martin bell. Martin, thanks so much. Coming on. I know youre coming on in your own capacity has said today begins the g. 20 summit. Do you expect yemen to be brought up at the g 20 summit . I certainly do. There are many countries here in which there are powerful forces arguing against continuing to supply sophisticated systems to the saudi coalition. There is a deep concern in many countries, including those in about the role of the saudi led air force about attacks on civilians. And i think in the last 5 years since the war, theyve been an average of one area and every 10 days in the targeting seems to be choked really into scream and scream, show me, kills a bus, a basket schools and so on. So the concern is i dont think the delegates will be doing their job if they, if they can find it gender to the coronavirus. While boris johnson, the minister liz just contended that there are isolated incidents that may have breached international law. Very different from what youre saying. I think its very different from what a lot of people are saying, including observers on the ground and human rights groups. The same still be a accident of indiscriminate attacks, of targeting, going wrong. And i think they, they, this seems to me a forum when this can reasonably be raised. Maybe its a good thing that it is happening in saudi arabia because they, they need to, they need to be told. And i, as i said that the delegates wont be doing their job unless they do raise this issue for the good also. Because well, morris johnson, when he was foreign secretary said he didnt want independent inquiries into british arms sales to saudi arabia. As regards yemenis and the saudis have a mess, insight into their own procedures and will be able to conduct the most and vera and conclusive investigations into the kinds of allegations youre making them sick. Many people would, would, would agree with that. I think we all have to do what we can look im, im not in politics anymore, but i was for 10 years on the Ethical Oversight Committee of a vicious electronics company. And 18 months ago, i discovered that they were intending to sell what they called stores really, systems to the saudi air force. Well, theyve been leaked to the contract and still is being released with weapons. So that point i resigned. I couldnt stay on the board of that company and work for unicef, so we will do what we can and, you know, the house of commons is also going forum to raise these concerns. I havent, i havent heard any convincing defense of these arms sales from distrust from our stance and from, from anybody. Even though there are a must arms sale regimens in place in this country. He, even though, has i said isolated incidents. I mean, did you do that after you actually visited yemen . As the unicef ambassador might have to remind us what you, what you saw when un yes, i actually visited. I couldnt go now. Publics, im too old and partly because its, its too dangerous. And its hard to, its hard to get in this with actually 10 years ago that at 6 was in 6 years. And i saw even that this is before the center is if you gratian of central and requiring this support by the coalition. But i saw the effects even then on these everetts i, held the hand of a 9 Year Old Girl who was suffering from p. T. S. D. , having been bombed in northern yemen. And i, and she didnt know who she was. 00 or where she was. It was, it was a most moving incident for me and it struck me that that will fare happens east the states mostly among civilians. Civilians are often targeted thats certainly often it. And i realize sets the difference between p. T. S. D. In a child and p. T. S. D. In an adult is just that in a child. It lasts longer. Well, britain gives aid for those children. And regardless of the fact oxfam is alleging that the g 20 sales dwarf the actual aid being given, i think the oxfam report says of the g 20 arms sales to saudia 3 times the humanitarian aid money. Surely you can criticize the British Government for its response to the yemen, humanitarian catastrophe, because it gives so much aid. Oh, absolutely, absolutely im. Im very much on the, on, on the side of the, of the people and it gives of aid. And the agencies, of course, by legislators give more aid. But let us be very careful about south of our military exports. They have to be, they have, i think they should be, they should be stopped and to get international inquiry, which i think the United Nations might might well carry out. This. Im not for a moment criticising the amount of aid that we get. I am criticising our arms exports and the damage that they do the youve covered more as in your history of war reporting with the r. A. F. I mean, how, how is it possible that if they are half a training these pilots that the pilots could be accidentally, or is it deliberately killing men, women, and children in yemen . And so there is not only the saudis, of course, are they the other countries simply in the coalition. Im not going to criticise a r f, but there would appear to be something wrong with the training if or something defective about it. If they, the, if the targeting goes goes wrong so regularly in time making these appear not to be isolated incidents, but they are parts of any action of wrong targeting. And it just couldnt talk you and i except that jane in modern warfare, theres no real distinction. Soldiers have submitted because the war was fought among the civilians and it spread. Now, since i was thats the port city of high data and widely across the country. But i think that we cannot we cannot carry on as we have tonight. I only wish i was still a member of parliament, but i, i know there are plenty of m. P. s waiting to raise. Thats what the world talking about tempered Jeremy Coleman was one who raised it quite a lot. Hes in the news breaks. Its in the news cove. It is in the news. Can you understand why despite unicef and n. G. O. S trying to get this further up, the Mainstream Media news agenda it is failing to make the news in this country . Yes, i do understand that. I watch news broadcasts still quite compulsively, at least one a day. And theres very little in the dayton foreign news in the very little about yemen. The wars of africa, the number of countries threatened now by famine you and used to call it food insecurity. And i would now, its now its famine. So the country can, the yemeni speak in a context of international dockings. And i do understand how the, i think an agenda of the use of gender is taken into a caption, if you like, by. They can run a virus, but doesnt stop these humanitarian crises. In fact, the crisis is whistling in, in yemen because if they coronavirus these things, these things interact. Yeah, the London School of hygiene and tropical medicine saying the deaths have doubled in aden because of covidien. Tell me about the scale of the famine because i know you saw famine when you were in yemen, but the figure is now a 24000000 needing Food Assistance out of a population of what 30000000. I think the things are getting, getting much worse. The infrastructure has, as has collapsed. You cant have a normal agriculture in the middle of a war. Millions of people threatened with death by, by starvation. I think sounds and they have died because already its very hard to get the figures because of the crisis on the ground. And even the, even the aid agencies dont have the access to the show. But satellite imagery is really worrying a freshly dug and dug graves of the, of the victims of the coronavirus. You know, everything. Sometimes i felt when i was in yemen that anything that could go wrong was, was going wrong. And to that, no, the plague of coronavirus and the famine. And its about as pat is it, as, as he can get. But how can we help . We help by, by foreign aid. Of course, we help by helping the aid agencies to unicef and the others looking after the children. And we will help, i think, by stopping the supply of lethal weapons to the saudi led coalition. However much it costs them are all costs to the xoom. What is the nature of the disconnect . Some might have thought you had become in sensitized desensitized by all the wars youve covered. But it is a fact that boris johnson, as foreign secretary, signed off as the sending of munition parts to saudi and saudi arabia, days after civilian deaths were being reported of civilians. So why is it your perspective seems so different . He, you think its so important the home sales, as opposed to the important aid to britain is giving in the same time. I think the onset of us has sort of a half a century. Ive been caught up in being a witness told or at the fringes of all 19 woes and all respects, same as and i havent seen it. Neither has said has his chance. I think i sometimes describe myself as a battle softened veteran. Im not actually a pacifist, so im some of the way there. But i have seen at 1st hand the misery and the destruction and, and the end it took close damage that will cause these and i find it just specially trust rating. No, its very difficult to get the attention of the world for anything else other than discrete pestilence, sweeping it. But the pestilence, his wessling, the plight of the yemeni. And, and we have to call a hold, we have to and somehow he got to draw attention to this. Is it not only that they havent seen . The kind of things youve seen is, is money in the, in quaid equation because britain and the British Government apparently are fighting the judicial review after the, for the resumption of weapon sales that fuel the conflict. There is a judicial review that the campaign is a hoping for about weapons out there. Of course, money is part of the equation because you see economy as quite significantly sustained by arms exports not just of course to saudi arabia but, but, but, but all over the world and its done by its done by a special license. But again, i think the moral imperative is so great that if there is a cost to the economy, i think it has to be borne. We came to be as a civilized people. Why are we arming it . Can i put it crudely, the gang that cant shoot straight . If i mean, im still haunted by what i saw in yemen. I was only there for a few days. You know, i still children, i saw a child dying before my before my eyes for lack of medical attention. The death toll is, its unsustainable. And if theres a, if theres a hit to the economy as a result, well is a hit to the economy be claimed to be a civilized nation. Civilized nation should not be doing what were doing. And were not the only one other the doing it as well. Bonnabel, thank you. After the break, after a putin brokered cease fire, we go to the heart of the frozen conflict that were taught there, going to cairo back with Award Winning journalist peter oborne, all the some more coming up about 2 of going on the ground during the vietnam war u. S. Forces also bomb to neighboring laos. It was a secret war. And for years the American People did not know until our thelma is occasionally heavily bombed country per capita. Human history, millions of unexploded bombs still in danger lives in this Small Agricultural country. Jordyn wieber. Even today, kids in laos full victims of bombs dropped decades ago. Is the u. S. Making amends for the tragedy. And what help do the people need in that little land of mines . The world is driven by the barriers thinks we are here to ask. Welcome back. In part one, we have from iconic war correspondent martin bell about the worlds worst humanitarian crisis. But lets now look to another persistent cough, exeunt nagornokarabakh, where a russian brokered cease fire has ended a 6 week long war in a 3 decades old battlefield between azerbaijan and army. Any of the great peter oborne was just returned from reporting from the center of the conflict, joins me now from wiltshire in the u. K. Beat of anxiety and coming on before we get any more. No karyn back we heard from one of the most celebrated war correspondents, martin bell just now on yemen. Involved one you were there, i understand. Do you understand why the other news is pushed yemen out of the headlines . Well, its not near is it that the yemen conflict which is described by the United Nations as the worst humanitarian crisis of the 21st century has been disgracefully fully underreported. And that has been some very good reporting, but very not nearly enough of know what the mcguffey of the n. B. A. Say, by the way, that some tacit reports, but its totally overlooked. And you can see why there are there are in britain, and you sense a worry whether its because of the british interests in saudi arabia, which has prevented us from really looking at the exposing the, its difficult to get to by the way, i mean, you have to get a society past white, you know, youve got to be, youve got these very hard to gain. And when youre in, its not very easy to get around. And theyre a putting of it. I mean, the british, the finnish hasnt been reported nearly enough, is that shameful kurdish role in aiding and abetting the saudis in the Bonnie Raitts in, in yemen, which it is said many schools, hospitals, markets and so forth. And of course, our role in the british role in blocking the and independent war crimes investigation. Well, obviously the prime minister, your old colleague, boris johnson, denies that as does the British Government. It says they have an isolated incident. I do want to actually, before i get to the way youve just been by john, another story knocking yemen out, arguably, and saudi which as hosting the g 20 summit is Jeremy Corbin is erode. That is tearing the labor party apart in middle east. What have you made of the guest basically throwing out of the parliamentary labor party. Havent you just got back looking from the looking at it so the outside, the problem with much of the reporting of this case is simply the least totally one sided. And the minute may very organizations and writers who write about it. So you know the facts, and i think this journalism not really should be about training troops and its a very great issues, but i dont think theyre bigger or tragedy and thats the arguments are making. Well, corbin, of course, always said ethical Foreign Policy was central to his leadership of the labor party wiley, while he led it. Why should people be interested in armenia and azerbaijan, having a conflict and interested you so much that you went there during a covert pandemic . And of only just got back. Yes, by the way the credit was raging. You know, it was, i was free for afraid that i would get stuck. I catch it and then happy stuff that i mean people, you know, war, people forget about, you know, educated at least that becomes less important. And therefore its important to go to the magic of crowds. And i was very concerned about that the, this, this war is, i think, a particularly brutal war. I mean, it was a tweet and it said really reengagement of this conflict, which brings in so many global powers and russia, turkey, israel, through the drones. And then the kind of the west stepping back and the plight of the armenians. I mean, when i was there, i went to the genocide memorial in if i say youre a fan and its very somber. And as far as the one of the fat says, which is you going to be very careful about talking about it. But is that the that the armenians do see themselves not only flightsim be obeyed, john, but as fighting that its, and of course, the long history of the you know, its more than 100 years since the media genocide, which of course, is not recognized by turkey at all tonight by turkey and of course not recognize, i think its very profound this not recognized by the United States or britain because quite simply because they dont want to offend that even though so much more information is coming out. And so here you have a battle going on in a nickel, no care about, except that its legal status, its very complex, but its mainly our media and in terms of people who live there and i talking to them as they will be driven out of that out of out of religious places. I mean, it was like a, you were, it was like to a funeral actually. Well, i mean, turkey obviously is a nato ally. So perhaps 1 may detect some level of bias in our media on the side of azerbaijan. Have you detected that and what did you actually see as regards who are committing the most crimes . I suppose, i mean there was the, is a war i think its more that theres a limit to myself and this. And so i went that yes, its very limited. Understanding of what is actually going on, and its also important to say that i was only on the armenian side. So i got one side of the story and, and i, but i did talk to a lot of soldiers who come back from the front. I talk to their families, talk to widows or talk soup. And the story was very consistent. Its a civilian army. So in a way i hadnt really appreciated that its an extraordinary year, 90 place. I had an amazing, very moving profound conversation with a doctor whod worked in one of the hospital surgeon who works in a hospital. He arafat. And he said on the 27th of september that they fight the, the bombing started. His son was a conscripts in a circus, they called the border koroma. And he just going to his car and drove to find the son. And they, you know, right that already the shouting had started and he was there and, and he spent the next. He would not be separated from me some for the next 44 days until the conflict ended on an incredibly moving end and his account of what it was like permanent shadow and then drove us drones apart all the time. He should do is raise the drones and he acts and the feeling, i mean as faces as this is mean, you know that youre not really cant see your enemy and the drones sort of hover above you and they may be punished for kind of cause he drones, it was an incredibly brave man. I mean he said that the one he wouldnt be separated would be somebody, he didnt want him solely to be redeployed amun, but one occasion in the middle of the battlefield, there were 4 wounded. And you know, if you went in a back in a car in the middle of the night and obviously at lights of picked up the full into soldiers and went back in then i think with these a doctor, he would appreciate them and fish. And he does is say, no matter of fact and actually worried that if he was why did was not the fact the u. K. Into the range of the air as a very foresees what worried it was that he was separated from his son. And there were cases of grandfathers, fathers and sons, all fighting or gather, he said its quite moved. And the grace of attrition was enormously, as they said, there was a platoon of some in a platoon of about 22 of whom forward kills 2. Missing. And about 11 or 12 including his son have been willing to eat so that hes in a 44 day war. Thats a very high rate of attrition. Who invite the turkish and, and israeli ambassadors on to try and refute any allegations that are going to this, their war crimes being conducted by my generation gesture that the use of drone warfare against troops. This is a war crime and maybe and the next there are war crimes. There are allegations about its the killing of civilians on both sides. It should be set. I spent a long time with a remarkable man. Actually. I was a human rights on but snowed in asa blind man. He gave me the face at about 50 civilians to show had been killed by sharing and thats a war crime diluting of, of civilians. And he also set up in sushi, the bay city, which fell on the eve of the ceasefire. He said that about 30 civilians missing that he thought they were probably dead. Many of them he said back. He thought if you have a behavior that worked there, would you have any groups operating on the villages get to those . Yanni, Group Allegations because i know britain, a tory, a sleaze, avoided the overthrow of president assad in syria. Did you see any evidence there that perhaps alqaeda linked isis linked people from the syrian conflict to a de facto mac by turkey. And, of course, nato nations that they were being used as kind of mercenary troops by azerbaijan, against armenia. Well, again, i going to repeat, i was only on the with the armenian side, i did, i did not get a shot, but they were clear nursery or jihadi groups gone from syria, turkey syria, bashar, and were fighting and they had really quite upset a film they show this now, this is, i cant check natural, terribly assessment from out of jihadi operates actually we should be put out except by the jihadists themselves of horrible are terrorists, mistreatments, including the headings but between and the reports are between about 2 to 4000 of these groups were operating, well obviously we can vary by and he claims it got there. I know through cause they came from syria. And of course, similar groups do seem to be deployed in libya. Of course were expecting of course. Now people are talking about a my presidency. Perhaps some talk of the people around him, the old obama, people who obviously supported those rebels against the syrian government. I really just got time to ask you about someone who didnt eliminate struggles in armenia as a page on hand all around the world. Julian, a songe. What would you say about british conduct of the case very briefly, and what have you made of these reports that coronaviruses was to lock down at the prison. He, according to the un special rapporteur on his welter, is being tortured in well, i only had the same reports you have, that there are the areas in belmarsh. I think im right in saying in isolation, the tribe it is in the aspiring to the present as we should not be surprising that. All right, we had a very serious testimony about race baiters health in the, in the hearing which finished in september. And i think there is a reason for grave concern about the health of jimmy innocent and i, i think that hes, i dont see him belmarsh now in more than a year. I was in there are i, im what i think he should be. I think thats great. I think he should be concerned about his health and the way hes being treated because i want thank you. Thats it for the show will be back on monday. 39 years to the day, u. S. President Ronald Reagan signed National Security decision directive 17, which gave the cia authority to recruit militarily, support squads against nicaragua, leading 230000 dead until then give it a try, social media and join the underground on you tube out. If you have facebook and twitter, its been decades since the fall of spains fascist regime, but old wounds still havent healed. And those in the past at the source mean older than us and they seem to, you know, thousands of newborn babies were torn from their mothers and given away and forced adoption. But only to this day, mothers still search for grown children while looking in hope for their birth parents. The president s press conference from the state department auditorium, march 23rd, 1961 i want to make a brief statement about layoffs