Though its pretty clear that yes, lost the election. Even republican senator now is an indian style of behavior asking, you know, absent of policy. Yeah, exactly. And so joe biden has announced he will convene a summit for democracy so he wants to rally americans and us round table again to really make them more coherent to improve the relationship, particularly see where p. And ls suno. And the relations was in nato relations was in the e. U. Back if straight he had a very hostile, almost relationship to international fox. So biden will have a totally different policy if he appreciates the value of the less and the whole he seems to realize that the United States is a lot stronger to get its allies rather than to go it alone. And under, under, we saw a more unilateral america going to develop policy. And i think that will change fundamentally in one of your recent analysis of trumps Foreign Policy. You single out its 3 primary strands disengaging the us from local politics, does deigning alice, you just retreated that point right now. And defriended an autocratic leader, hes now a naturally as a russian, as and perhaps in your view as a shill. For one set arc radical leader. I want to ask you specifically, what does it mean befriending autocratic leaders . Well, we have a very disconcerting congress is under trumps that for example, trump became very close to Saudi Arabian crown prince. And you know that the crown, prince was at least implicated in the murder of 6 generalists, kushal b. , and by everybody that trump did not say a word about it. Instead of that he continued having very good relations. Also personal relations with members of this administration at that same also did not criticize what was going on in europe regarding hungry and poland and the presently, or to credit policies of these 2 countries. Cus, you know, its condemned. It is trying to do something about it. Trump has kept quiet though, saying that you would see that and that i read that proposal. R. C. Said to be equating public statements rhetoric to policy and has studied them Foreign Policy in the United States. And our start as, and im sure you teach your students, that words are not the same as actions. Absolutely. But like statements dont make up a policy, in fact, and those that you will be diametrically opposed to one another. So again, lets not look at public statements. I read there is a major difference in style in persona and character, but those are personal things and asking you about the substantive change in the course of the United States. And again, in policy terms, because really in the liberal circles they dont love using these big branding, autocratic leader is cliche, but what does it mean in adelaide equal terms . The goal of that policy demeans of that policy and the possible outcomes of that policy. If that is the dominant note, for example, as i mentioned, the summit off democracy, of course, people where the wind is blowing in the United States. And he built a career in her in order to sell your bill supports the e. U. Regarding the policy towards poland in hungary, while trump has indirectly, but big keeping quiet by expressing sympathy as expressed support for these people. And that, of course, in bolton. And you dont, you wont see that still in bold meant and of having set of course also realize the strategic relationship, the United States has to sortie arabia. It will not true saudi arabia into an enemy and no one would expect that. And the other hand, you know, not let the crown prince get away with these sort of care after something about these women was present, that it was in office together with president obama. They tell him that allowed saudi arabia to launch one of the most murderous, bloodiest wars there is, has still continuing right now. And i understand that, that there is a certain air resonance about the absolute horrific nature of that one killing. But under biden and obama, hundreds of thousands of such killings have been taking place. Can move really pull down the who are ministry of their coverage of the wall of a human, conducted by saudi arabia. And of those have you stopped to do it while obama was in power . And it certainly is one of the black clients of the Obama Administration, the only one. I dont know, not saying that its one of my points that they didnt do anything about it, but biden was, of course, vice president. He did have an influence obama could if i sat in the n. T. Did possums a guy who took the decisions that clearly was president. That is different now. And of course also in the last few years or so, you merican statements have looked for what is going on in that part of the world. How to start troy has become how terrible the human costs have been. So i would expect to reverse that course and not too soon for saudi arabia or yes said so, and of course us will go to see their quality issues and they say things during combat. Its therefore up when these statements, but i would expect to abide introduced so it clearly is more in favor of human rights. For example, in general. Then for example, President Trump would never even use a term of human rights. Well, you didnt hear my next question, and i think its partially time that ties meant that my questions about your choice of vocabulary that is befriending the autocratic leader, is because its true that donald trump had a more pragmatic, last moralistic approach to Foreign Policy. And i think its high time where the will to debate how we define morality in international relations. What is good and what is bad . What are the limits . The legitimate uses of military power, so that we dont see the carnage, like we saw in yemen in libya, in iraq, all of which were born out of good moralistic intentions. Repeat again. And my question to you is dont you think that by using nice liberal catchphrases befriending, which is essentially an attack by association, youre out in a way kind of flashing the need for the world to have that conversation. And if you, if you look around the world is really crying out for it because all the major problems we have right now refugees, internally displaced and down, makes immigration, the riser for a populist. They can all be tied to the war. Its a band lou, i know, and i think, i think you can agree that human rights are something to do was killing people and killing people is always a bad idea. And that applies to all countries be. Its the United States, or russia, or china, or other great ousts, you know, they are getting involved or stopping was pushing was annexing countries that are trying to develop incursions and countries is a bad sink. And biden is a case here for him and yours in proportion, right . Any demand is only because i feel the only reason to russians are, as im always the early oil bloodbath. Now the signal light was low there. You cannot compare to Something Like that. So you look, lets say an operation and leave the average again, is the same matter of analysis. You cant compare, compare the killing of to shaw gets you the bloody war in vietnam that the Obama Administration has oversaw. So the question is, who is really moral and these in order to be asked not just kill kershaw, of course, very active in yemen and in other conflicts around the world or not. Or dont you now do a final round other ministries and yeah, we might get a man who lost and United States needs to do something about that. And biden has sat, he would do so well, belief in whether he will follow up. We dont know costs you will not be a perfect president. He will not fulfill all of our human rights expectations and their strategic considerations also, all considerations that any president and pretty sure s. To take into rica. However, President Trump was a very ruthless politician who only looked at strategic. Its just, he did not consider human rights at all. And i think this will change. Definitely, that doesnt mean that the United States now will pursue a policy that is exclusively oriented along human rights. Like this might be nice, this might be a perfect scenario, is unlikely to have. Professor lars eller is for all his recklessness. Donald trump has launched a single war stuff sometimes. I mean, when you can be a cunt pierre, you know how many human lives lost out of concern for human rights . Sometimes you may think that perhaps its safer for the world for the americans. Do you put that aside, but really were defendo for the vote. Im not defending in, im actually, im not buying into this american habit of looking at that parents. As i think this is, theres a strong strand in the russian Foreign Policy of actually looking at the results, not what they call you, but what they do at the end of the day. And whether one says, because if you come to my country and kill my child out of good intentions, i dont care what your intentions were. I can i carry my, my life sunbeam laws that are if you have a brief look at it on the trumps policies, and we havent launched this in the war. Thats the arizona drew. I dont disagree said of course he hasnt, but still the world is a no mess. You know, we have relations as russia and become better. We have relations with china, very tense, very constituents, yes, relations. Because iran, its a very conceptual, even last week, a few days ago, dollars rent a pound, they consider bombing iran. You have the Transatlantic Alliance purchase goods interest in a mask that all happened under the trumps this. These are not good developments. I drunk to that, that he did not launch a major wall that are not the latter being because there is a huge difference between what our warts which here was waging and didnt really one of the claims lives anyway. Personal are so we have to take a very short break right now. Were going to go back to the spirited conversation a few moments in our elwood forward to talking to you all that technology should work for people. I robot must obey the orders given by human beings, except where such orders would conflict with the 1st law. Show your identification or should be very careful about official intelligence at the point of use. The brakes trust ever other than fear inflicting on various johnson with Artificial Intelligence will summon the demon the robot must protect its own existence as a excuse to join me every thursday. On the elec, so im unsure when ill be speaking to guess of the world of politics or business. Im show business, ill see about welcome back to worlds apart then plows larysa professor abby universe there in our lab at chapel hill, professor, just before the break we were discussing the aremu, the commitment of the United States to human rights and democracy. And do you joe bidens credit, i want to add mentioned that he was one of the very few people within the Obama Administration who was against the whole libya endeavor. And he actually in a way, repurpose trumps own rhetoric for anding, the endless wars in bidens terms. Its the for other wars which have cost the United States untold blood and treasure. And he forgot to mention though, that many of those wars were either launched directly or indirectly approved by the United States. But anyway, do you think the Biden Administration will be ready for some kind of like, why and alice is of how this American Leadership is supposed to be instead reinstituted onto their walls because as im sure you would remember me, the world in 2021 is very different from the world, even in 2016, you know, most american administrations spent that come into office. They consider all their Foreign Policy relations are always a world that is usually an exercise every administration. Gus and im sure joe biden ministration do that as well. What you will see, and that is perhaps the major difference was a trumpet. Ministration is a more predictable and more reliable, Foreign Policy, elyse and solos know what to expect from the white house for policy. It wont change every 2 days. So Something Like that bill actually, i think also be predicted by those countries. Some sells a soso america, including perhaps russia and china, and saudi arabia who will be in the middle. You know, it will not be regarded as a foe. It will not be regarded as a close friend or so read new book, we can expect a new approach. And i think that may be a good approach, which is why its our relations in a goes away from that heated every day media circus. The tree saw and a President Trump. In the end, as i said, if you are president by bill not to be perfect president , no president can be evil, have strategic considerations to consider from his point of view, from an American Point of view, juma, priest, china, russia, all other countries to some extent. But i think that will also, he will also make an attempt, and that is probably what he has learned in over 50 years and policy. If that isnt a good idea to find call in ground was countries you may have not has a best relationship is talking about in russia, the renewal of the human stocks treaty, i think, would be a great stuff for having Something Like a reset with russia. Interest, china, else all other considerations like cooperation on climate change, for example, cooperation, maybe on of gunnison on the middle east so that the areas you can find where countries who are not necessarily friendly was each other can cooperate for a lady or can you do not all circumstances you can find that unless you are arab, as jim and i blog and meet, you know, ready to eat, raw misstatements of the by the u. S. Mission and that, you know, a lot of very abstract language about human rights and democracy. Now there are lots and lots of practical issues and the roles that i went on that made sense of why me like race and robert mind what sharon wore, that dumps and all about the american use of democracy. But the operation around those issues get more active by one side, ideologically washouts. Very. Do you think the bidens stray . Sure. Am up for that south. Youre engaged those countries. Now, glens all respect, especially when it, sooner than one base that over the last 20 years about russia, about exams, i dont know how they can do that. Serious. I mean, that goes both ways. No politicians tend to say a lot about each other. And when that, then youre going to marry that enemy, act it out, right . That are all at summit, if they dont talk in a similar way. And of course, you know, biden is well known for having only set to applaud him. If to do that, he looked into his soul and their duty to his eyes and didnt find a soul. That is, im sure, a room, i can smell it, going its own repeating it dryer. Let me just remind our viewers that elsa game was great. You 1000 alap counts, ask against running for president. Again, speaking about interference in a countrys electoral navy each year men have indeed a very long history and very much trouble is. I mean, you cannot cross talk about that into funes in each of those countries. And each of us domestic policy, russian descent from nation come paints 2016 to result in 20 a kind of way and have been concerned. But i dont want to go into that. What i dont want to say is replications actually meet privately in a room or at a summit. Then election campaigns off to rooms full of the media rigid. They also have to take into consideration for that too messy or you know, its on both sides. They usually kind of say not the remarks, all unpleasant red mosque, they usually go quickly out of the window. And i would be very surprised if clinton and joe biden didnt have a good conversation. The 3 of that say im pleasant, right, to rape. And if they wouldnt try to find common ground, like for example, extending the new start treaty. And that could be the basis of perhaps, you know, a reset. But for reset, as the saying goes, it needs 2 to tango, all the americans are left to give something. But the russians are going to have to give something at a concessions. And you know, that would be nice if Something Like that happened a professional, or as i have no doubt in my mind that the russians have long been writing for to have it all out. But i have grave doubts that the Biden Administration is people of that, especially if you are blocking action to get more and how can you post based on it of democracies on why should i reach your commitment to you . America is that while democracy and human rights are one camp and whole region and dictator ad if you were a journalist and deal bit here. On the other hand, i mean all that all politicians, especially on their liberal living at rates, but not serial might well insolvent. And it may save their boat under grievous that it is quite possible to try to attempt to have a reset with dictators and the world autocrats and the world be the cold boot to know if he should bring all of it to press even with the most Korean Leader without accepting all of their policies, all the methods that is excellent to the skillfulness of 2 promises and politics that you try to fit to really do create the areas you can agree on and can decide the areas you define. And i think joe biden is probably intending to do that just for the sake of american Foreign Policy, clearly is an american president , but also for the sake of having the most a greater stability in the world. Well, here he really intends to do that and that, you know, the democrats are nasty like this and as, as a candidate or as the president will change the still not national conversation. I think he has to keep that, that snow in mind when dealing with other country leaders because i have even if he were a national problems, but now going to be treated as morally inferior. Is that our great, but when you look at america, the best of politics right now, i think the tone has already changed when you see how biden really acts to what is going on in the white hous