Back at the top with all the updates to stay close to. Program is ahead in moments. Join me every thursday on the alex salmond show and ill be speaking to us from the world of politics. Im sure. Ill see you then. Hello and welcome to cross talk where all things are considered on Peter Lavelle joe biden may indeed be inaugurated in january of next year however will he have a legitimate mandate will the next Campaign Start when the next president takes office and the new liberal order is headed back into power what will be their agenda. To discuss this and more im joined by my guest george samueli in budapest he is an author and a youtube or at big apple and here in moscow we crossed him maxine he is an expert at the Russian InternationalAffairs Council originally crossed out rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i was appreciate it ok lets go to georgia in budapest. And looking at the Election Results or how would the Election Results are being presented to the to the public and the worlds here i cant help but get the feeling that if this had happened in any other country in the world the United States would have stepped in or made a lot of noise about democratic norms and demanding a recount and all of this kind of thing here but they dont because its happening to themselves you know its just an interesting critique about how democracy is spoken about and practiced in the United States and how its spoken about and practiced internationally go ahead george you know that would be right because everything that is normal life since the election although its. Being. Rotating. Laws be changed arbitrarily and unconstitutionally in order to make essential a 1000000 voting come they place without any of the checks that were supposed to be in place if any of this had happened in russia say in the state department will you know im not an idiot remey the document was it would already be imposing sanctions on russia well all the phony election so thats exactly right. And we dont even have to talk about. What would happen if all the countries i mean if they had been a donald trump who had come out with the glad the when the having posset 170 Electoral College as the goal is to have the had come out what would have been the media response the media would have been grieving this is the role donald trump has cheated theres no mandate every single accusation of. Illegality every single accusation of electoral fraud must be investigated thoroughly must go to the courts must go to the state legislatures and also them not to certify the election as we know that would have been the response of the us media but it has a map and because the result such as it is is something that is desired by much of the media as though their line is not election all of the reading about its gotten training accept the results and then move over into the coming by in error and when you forget you forgot one thing george they would have resurrected the russia gate hoax just as an extra you know insurance policy as. You know you know max one of the interesting things its could come about here can sit and depending on what donald trump intends to do in january of next year and the reason i ask you because during. The fall of the of the czarist empire of the imperial government there was a dual power that battled out during that what would become part of the Russian Revolution here this is something something akin to it i mean joe biden may be the legal president of the United States but in the eyes of tens of millions. Up to 73000000 he will not be and he and trump will still have a form of legitimacy that. Biden is going to be hard to. To out shine as it were because as george pointed out here and i am not making any accusations here im going by what i hear in the meet but theres a lot of irregularities and im being very polite about irregularities here so i mean what does this portend for american. Americas political future when youre going to have a legal president then youre going to have a lot of other people saying hes not my president the other guy is go ahead minutes right well 1st of all any president including that of the United States usually operates in 3 dimensions and it 3 donates a politician doesnt regret and is it a matter of cheese so for biting the floors its to kind of smooth over the things that you just mentioned it is important to show that hes a more kind of capable perhaps you know he will have to ensure that there is a faster transition there that hes people you know feel it important decisions you know they can but its the governments. And the media im pretty sure will pick up on that merits to portray him as a more authentic you know kid. The full governor is a dozen more capable person to govern the United States and that the way some other out there americans who are for trunks will be toned down and the politician by then of course has to care about his farm his reelection is for his victory and the and next election cycle were still have to take very positions that are supposed to strengthen that have a presence inside United States you dont get given gratian reform that will house you know about 11000000 Illegal Immigrants or a bit more than 20 potentially even that within our investors and this is where several tasha democratic constituency for the last for the next election including congressional action and as the commander in chief theyll be you know all this focus is on external threats that i think well talk about later so were city you know these will be kind of the 3 domains that hes administration will pursue and the media will very much focus on to you know you mentioned that after its out shiny and its more strong as a much bigger or is not due to you know outright biden but then it will be this resource that i think that the media the Mainstream Media and other actors in the insight you had states will try to boost bidens presidency and as youre accurately mentioned and i think thats pretty much general in the u. S. Election its fair in the us political system that is very much dependent on election cycles and as they say the next election cycle starts the day the next day after the inauguration. Maybe it will doubly so george because whats going to happen here my prediction is at least number one i trump is going to stay in the in the in the limelight obviously hes a showman 1st and foremost and he like secretly likes to tease the public and he likes to create into is a patient and what he will end up doing is it went whenever the joe biden ministration proposes or talks about theres going to be a juxtaposition and the trump is issue is this and he will have all of his. His orbit of people around him amplifying that all the time so it is going to be a binary whatever. The bike ministration proposes theres going to be an equal effect with the people that support donald trump because and again im not making any claims here but a lot of people believe that this election was stolen from them and then in until that is result which i doubt it will be theres this is going to hang over american politics for them for the next 4 years and actually freeze american politics for the next 4 years oh and by the way george the media will love it because they make a lot of money off it yes thats right and. 2 probably as things stand on january 20th you know rule day donald trump will not attend bidens inhere ation he will hold d a rally of his own during which he will almost certainly announce his candidacy for 2024 he brought he did that. During the rally on saturday in georgia i mean more or less said that that if he isnt in the office on january the 21st he will be the candidate in 2024 so thats the question he will then declare his candidacy if and that means everything will be about. Contending with with the policies of the biden in this race so this wont be like the normal electoral cycle or who will be the. Republican nominee but in 2020 people this will be dont trump is making his comeback and he is the leader of the opposition and so whatever you say whatever biden intends to do better will be. Tweeting holding a rally is giving interviews. Several times a day on fox news and this will be a kind of the focus of the opposition so the by dimmest ration is already a hole from the beginning theres no goodwill towards him theres no honeymoon period he is already scrambling. Against the the opponent that will be had this looming ever larger and hes intent on destroying him you know matz it in how do you think the outside world is going to look at this is it again you know. Joe biden may be the legal president under the constitution but you know you it will be even noticed that theres the whos driving the news cycle whos driving what the different discussions about policy it will be a candidate thats like it george said on Inauguration Day if you action starts and candidate trump is going to be determining a great deal of what that discourse is how will the outside world look at as well they just be in awe or they be terrified or just be mystified go ahead right well i think well throughout Human History doesnt work up until perhaps 21st century whose army wins in the 21st century its super to sort of wince so i think one of the things to counter trap activity is size far as i can imagine in the United States is the big media act this trying to strip him of that Information Space what is sure of the Information Space you know twitter perhaps banning his accounts and you know major channels including fox news you know hes been very supportive of trump throughout most of his presidency but on some instances the. You know also critical were not writing the platform for the president so you might be well at least to me to try to marginalize him inside the United States to create the picture for the rest of the world that hes not the what upshots so if that happens its worse the critical battle will be of who gets to control the prophecy who gets the budget and all those things as far as the perceptions are concerned i think of the world will be will be divided because we now see that so you know maybe in American Allies in western europe nato allies cheerleader were were bitin and really were you know welcome to him and were among the 1st to congratulate him on what these tricks and were as other American Allies in the middle east in particular were less so you know can see was yeah stick and trunk was a better person to deal with it at least this you know their interests were served in the relationship of the United States was a mixed bag in asia i would say you know some prefer to continue working with trunk others continued you know thought that you know straps a new interim alice she under biden would be a better word for them so i think it will mean less will still be a less certainty for the rest of the world. As far as what the thats going on in the next what i mean the end of this part of the program you have it i think it will be it will be very very interesting is that you know if theres a name potential of another Trump Presidency why would countries around the world want to get an agreement with joe biden ok remains to be anything i can look at a short break and out of that in your discussion thats a real news state. For all those drugs. Shaped by phone person. Who dares thinks. We dare to ask. People. Imagine picking up a future textbook on the early years of the 21st century what are the chapters called Gun Violence School shootings homelessness 1st it was my job it was my farewell bill it was my savings i have nothing i have nothing and its not like i dont try i look for resources i look for jobs i look for everything i can to make this house. And all i end up doing is. The road to the American Dream paved with good refugees its this very idealized image of. Americans look pasta the deaths that happen every single day this is a modern history of the usa and america. Welcome to cross up here all things are considered im Peter Lavelle true mind you discussing some real news. Ok lets go back to george in budapest wont we i think that you know the 2 of 3 of us here on this program can easily for seeing a lot of gridlock in the next 4 years and we focus quite a bit also are on domestic politics and just at the sale in International Politics whats going to be very interesting here george for me is if we have these laser thin majority for the g. O. P. For the democrats in the house of representatives and depending on what happens in georgia the Senate Remains in the hands of the g. O. P. So ergo theres only one thing with with some kind of effectiveness that by doing ministration can pursue is Foreign Policy ok and i think that because of because theyll be this sense of gridlock that sense the reality of gridlock in washington in the new administration have to dissipate that come to pass in january theyre going to say this is the only thing we have got and now theyre you know theyre putting the band back together from the obama years and even from the george w. Bush years in the world is their oyster right now im not very optimistic about that because they didnt want to show themselves to be effective meaningful and that means maybe using a lot more force like we saw under obama what do you think george i agree with here that that will be the priority. Biden inspiration because as you say they wont really have much margin to maneuver when it comes to the mess that they didnt get a mandate that they were expecting what the polls were predicting so this is they have bashed up. If you look at their pronouncement the pronounce of the blame gana by jakes all that its all about how lets have act was Foreign Policy you know well lets show russia whos boss lets show who didnt that he has a price the pay into play here and. Lets show china that were ready to compete with them. In every country in the well lets show. The mischievous regimes like assad was boss and that was the only intent to overthrow them so they dont really have any clear idea what it is theyre trying to achieve other than they want to do this american Foreign Policy and activist american Foreign Policy usually means interference in other countries. Both by a saw integrating all these phony Civil Society programs by not so its all about sanctions and ultimately military intervention so 2 no doubt that will be dressed up as right you know were competing with china because if we dont do it china neko ways so i think thats going to be the mentality and i think its going to be and thats the. Coming couple of years you know max you know when it was during the. Trump administration where russia gate was full blown and now we looks like we may have an administration will have members there were some of the biggest proponents of this hoax here and these type of people are arrogant theyre not particularly smart well connected and they have great credentials at least when as the ruling class b. I dont see them eating their words theyre never going to admit theyve been wrong and so once a russia gate or always a russia gain or and now they will how power that doesnt portend well for the future my friend go ahead well i think there are 3 elements here 1st of all your response rita. For next time ok to trinity its like the trinity right exactly well 1st of all 1 throughout the trump ministration yours the barrister criticize trump for 1st of all these team is incompetent. Second hes a russian literature and certainly. Hes undermining American Leadership so basically theyre gathered team who they want to portray him as more competent less russia friendly and you know that will interest or American Leadership which when you look at into into the composition of the team that you see that a lot of these people have known each other for many many many years and pretty much coming from same circles i dont want to call it a lot but theres definitely a good share of the group think and this is one of the risks of the able to actual Decision Making on top of Foreign Policy decisions that i think is as it were for many people inside the United States as well and even if youre somewhere just Democratic Party or states perhaps more than a professional that person it would be to the best of america secondly their main 88. 00 is the worst that through the trumpet ministration that there is great need to fight what they call populists at home inside the United States in the western society and authoritarian leaders who brought many sins in vain and not ours so when they bring a lot of this you know human rights agenda sure and theres a worse. I stick with russia we tried it was and other countries that america has a strategic disagreements with thats thats of course a big worry thats early elsewhere say you mentioned the russia game it wants russia get roles russia get or i grew with you its just perhaps i think that they will focus more on russia is in trouble factor in the United States and you know kind of approach out more pressure on russia outside you know way kind of bringing russia to where it should be as it is a big you know concern to risk a threat United States and that of course does not a whole new very optimistic on all of the 3 accounts here but i agree with everything youre going to say you know georgia gives it that it doesnt it doesnt really worry me is that. You know like i said once a russian gator always a russian gator and theyre going to end it now they have the lovers howard on it and i think you know when we look at you know trump was soft on russia maybe the evidence doesnt show that whatsoever what worries me is even more i mean it gets down to at the at the end of the day you know what kind of conflict do you want to have you want a cold conflict or a hot one because its going to be a conflict no matter what ok. Yes thats right they talking because they want to sound very soothing because basically this Foreign Policy that were talking about is something of very unpopular among the American Public so they basically kept all this hidden and why i say sue things i will return to the new start treaty maybe well return to the j. C. Will return to the paris plane with the 4 who rejoined the w. H. O. So its all sounds very soothing. But in reality when they talk about returning to the new. Renewing the new start treaty that goes together with all sorts of threats and assertions that theyre going to now challenge russia well of course if youre going to go in with that attitude then russia will have very little interest in renegotiating a new start treaty so thats really what theyre trying to do i mean they are going to compete with russia and china that they know that their mentality where in every part of the world so those sort of business and they pretty much made no secret of this will be syria i mean this is this is a you know goes back to the obama. There or they will feel that obama failed in syria they will renewed their regime change if war is syria even though theyre against making will the right noises well reggaes regime change where again forever was at best thats not really what they can thats not them. Went out if they will do that ukraine again thats something thats so that goes back to the obama if thats what bidens anyway so again theyve got to stop interfering that were going to go to. The caucus says in the corner car bomb prices that theyre going to find more immoral places to intervene and and to show that america is back and this of course does bring them into conflict with russia. And i think thats why. They have the prospects are not at all right on course or not you know max one of the interesting things just something the george mentioned in passing is that the Foreign Policy. That this new team are opposing is unpopular with the public i mean its you know if it means going back to the you know the going back to what was normal as if there was anything normal about the Obama Administration that and this is again the professional manager saying to the public is that we know better than you do and that its no its no surprise that during the g 2020 alexion Foreign Policy was hardly discussed whatsoever here so again we have this kind of separation between what they manage royal professional clowns believes should be done and what the public wants the public is against these wars here and if george is right and unfortunately he probably is right we have more we have the same old wars continuing and possibly some new ones and we after 3 president ial election cycles in a row ever is consistently these conflicts are on wanted theyre not popular with the public and that was the reason why im bringing that up because then and 2024 you know that theres going to be a candidate out there and say i told you so they will never end these wars. There if the democrats are giving this individual a gift go ahead max right well i think all it is a president proponents of greater cooperation is that the United States and russia in an ideal world i can name the tons of issue where moscow and washington could generally cop rate unfortunately thats not going to happen and you know that thereby left relations lost their meeting perhaps too many in washington and for now were pretty much left with what the best we can do is to manage confrontation you know make sure that this confrontation does not spill over to a hot war as you imagine well never yet and sitting everything thats happened here ok if russia gate and all of this here why should anyone in russia trust when any American Administration says about anything im sorry getting i think theres a lot and theres a lot of truth in it ok you know i mean or where is the trust of what i want you know i dont want im an american youre a russian i dont we should never be enemies but you know because given what the elites have done in washington theres no reason for us to be friends i think theyre go ahead no i dont disagree with this i its just my point it wouldnt theres definitely not trust no one really i say anyone at their worse its just that i think you know the best looking do is to make you know managed confrontation meaning that there is no hot war and this perhaps will get based on heart or you know old school terms. And you know thats promotional heat your you can do but i think and on the issue larry of the policy of this kind of intervention is not United States absolutely its totally not popular there is a cult both on the side of the progressive you know had the republicans that these interventions are an idea you know they try to you know the democratic establishment try to present and brand their Foreign Policy i. Were recently asked why the democratic policy would be beneficial for the middle class well lets see how that turns out to maybe thats a topic straight in the program because id like to know the answer to that i would run out of time i want to thank my guests in budapest and in moscow want to make our viewers are watching us here are to see you next time remember. When i was still seemed wrong. But all roads just dont call. Me the world yet to see how hes going to come after. And in detroit because the trail. When so many find themselves worlds apart we choose to look for common ground. If you find me to finish me here if you think im. Sure. Some parts all bukhari will be. Prompting fears. The truth will become. Some sort of. Summation is required and then you become. Sure were. Going to lose our Civil Liberties over this what are we really treating you