If there is indication here, there must be a positive here, which is what they wish to continue the sort of a magic spell of which is something which has worked in the past. But i think that its wearing off very, very deeply right now is theres a, a certain fatigue amongst the western population which has been said the same line that russia is just about to lose rough is just about to lose for, well, well, over a year really since the 1st days of the military intervention began, and, and i think what we see is, is a complete failure and of govern ability amongst nations of europe and including the United States as well a destruction of ability to basic ability in the 1st world, countries to supply energy, reliable food, or even simply convinced the population that their economy is not about to collapse and sitting on the precipice. All of all of these things are very, very difficult to uphold. So i think that people are not really buying the same plate as they used to be. Yeah, you know, ryan is very interesting. Last week, Robert F Kennedy junior was on the sean hannity show, and of course had any going through his usual bumper stickers about non neil con nonsense and in. Kennedy pushed back and gave a reasonably not perfect but a reasonably good Historical Context to it. And the crowd cheered. It was remarkable. You know, hannitys own fans, groupies were disagreeing with him in real time. That gets to the point with when met with matthew was saying is that people are not buying it. Its a, its a, a bill of goods that is not being accepted. Ryan, i whole heartedly agree. And i think whats interesting, the, the, what youre highlighting there and this is anywhere you look in the Corporate Media right now, is please, just from my perspective, as far as i can tell where theyre constantly pushing the narrative, they want their audiences to believe. And you see this in, in, you know, discussions where theyre saying my audience doesnt believe in conspiracy theories. Well, you know, theyre basically telling them how to think. And the truth is, as youre seeing. And that example is, you know, that they are asking these questions and if theyre there, so the narrative is slipping through their fingers in regard to the original question. I think it kind of cuts to the quick of the real point here is that this was, at least as, as, as a lot of people be on, on myself, included that whats going on. And ukraine is predominantly about meyer in russia, into this endless engagement. The same conversation that was had about afghanistan with the, with the move to dean and, and ultimately you could argue to some degree that was effective. And that might be why its being applied today. You know, we can go back a long way and see this has been a long ca operation before you know, in, in regard to so be union and now with russia. But i think what this is ultimately about in your point about saying russia has no last, its really kind of highlighting the real point here. Its not about you brain winning. I think we all see that. Its a at x, that ukraines expense just making sure rush of loses. And even then i still dont think thats even whats happening. But thats just again, this is the narrative we want you to be spreading. Yeah, it, its, its very interesting that they, they wont, but maybe theyll, theyll make this unfounded claim that russia has lost, but they never will say that ukraine is one because its probably not true johnny. One of the things, its always interesting that any and even kind of you know, media that is sympathetic to a, a realist interpretation. But they always talk about mis rushes, miscalculations and mistakes and all that. But theyll never say that by didnt ministration or other administrations have made any mistake. Is it maybe the drives to expand nato . Is somehow a given a and its a good given in their mind, but they never question their motives and they never question their actions. Go ahead, johnny as well. Yes. Those sides uh, keep each other miscalculation has lost them. Is calculated. I think they, they close their what would be over by now. I think that they homes that they send the chips and the things around. Yeah. As opposed to trying to make a deal. I also suspect of us uh, what about uh, a list if you like, a possible outcomes. And the dates are fully back in the grade in the amount of money when they send that i think the lessons at noon, thats a possibility. So i think thats what i was able to now, but no to suspect that as well. And so i may well may well about the situation right now. But as the se miscalculations by the west of the north, they house the sanctions of triple the russian economy. That hasnt happens a sections of mind youre more than theyve had russia. And in this an echo chamber which politicians Civil Society john was living in the west. You can hardly pick up a newspaper in the last year without reading about how bad the russian army is. The last of these things on shoot, i live in an echo chamber when they pull themselves into thinking you create really, really count when this was. But since they found out the nature of his nature weaponry some by sophisticated reformation, theyve done like anything else. They reach the bottom line. So i think the west has massively miscalculated multiple times in this war. And as i say, as being ignored by the west of medium, you know, its, its such a good point, johnny matthew. Um are they we always hear about, you know, getting, providing the russians an off ramp. You hear that all the time, you know and offer him from this year. But they, they never question. Why would, why would brush or even negotiate with these people that lied to them for years and years of the minutes go process is a perfect example. All the Major Players that were involved, the admitted, yeah, it was a scam my word, but thats what they said it was a scam. So whats the off ramp here of negotiations . You know, and the saudis are in on it, you know, and then the chinese are and it, but theres no reason for rushing negotiate with any of these people, particularly since its not losing matthew. Yeah, its a strange little bit of um, its a self delusion which just keeps on repeating it itself. And when you think that they cant get more crazy, they go and repeat something absurd, which has been proven to be wrong. So many times. I mean, it seems as though, unless you have a full extraction of all russian forces, a complete returning of premier and Everything Else to take care of and rush, youre paying reparations and putting, putting up for work frames a at, at some tribunal then. And the International Community is not supposed to are told, were not supposed to be happy with any, any other outcome. But at the same time is wed say that were like, well, lets give russia somebodys skipper. Its absurd, rough as is completely is completely dominant. I believe in this, in this current scenario, our ukraine is as become more than a failed state. And i think its really just the question now at this point of seeing where, where the cards fall fall since the whole Financial System again, is creating a bit of a timeline of, of how long we have to really play this game. Since once the banks do nailed down the ability to carry out the type of prolonged war that was possible in times, likes it being emergencies. Wet dream of the 198 late seventys throughout the eightys. That to, that is not really there this time around. Back in the eightys, the us was still relatively financially stable, whereas now its a giant bottle debt reading basket case, which is teetering on the edge, which is again, creating a timeline that weve never seen before. So with that, i dont really know exactly how, how theyre theyre Going Forward in front of the idea is because they live with the illusions, you know, you know, right, its, its very interesting here is that, you know, the, the narrative from the west its, its very more realistic, its very hollow, but its more or less big. And its very difficult to have a constructive conversation with some of that. And so moralizing about everything and hypocritical on top of it, the russians are interested in security. Its always been that thats from the very, very beginning to the moment were speaking right now. Security for all nobody in the west and power is willing to consider that ryan. I mean, i tend to try to avoid acting like i know what any government or, or person in the authority or power thinks or wants or believes or even the people. But i would argue that based on what we can see taking place, its very clear that theres been repeated Red Lines Crossed at the us. Government has been actively trying to make this happen. That russia, even even overlapping it with syria, has continually shown itself to show that you were to demonstrate restraint to not take the bait. I mean, we can see this happening repeatedly and in ukraine, but also with syria and then over overlapping that with the larger point about not allowing this to end. Its the same thing with syria. Well, were not going to allow this country to return to normal rock, allow the people to end their suffering until we remove a sod. So it shows that the real point with all of these has nothing to do with fighting for the, for any people fighting with anything other than their agenda and their control over the area. And to act like putting should just pull back and just give up. Will ultimately what that means is that the people in don bass who have boded internationally observed legally to be a part of this country because theyre being ethnically, cleanse will then be left to the actions of these people who have been murdering them wholesale. Same thing with crimea by the way, and they have said this publicly gets they want to do to the people. So its really hard not to see the reality. And that speaks to the big illusion about the western media. Try to sell the people that dont want to do this kind of research is johnny, we have one minute before we go to the break here. But you know, brian brings up a really good point. These people in crime, in the don bats, and never given any agency it whatsoever. Its really, its really quite pathetic when, particularly when the west is talking about rules based order. Go ahead before we go to the break. John lee, ive got a lot of time and dont pass on and try me over the last year or so. And i can speak to the vast majority of people in dont bass and try me on a new one to one of the boss of ukraine. And this is being census by the west, the media. Because when they realized that the vast majority of human dont boss have been boned by credit to so long as you can try me at once, we might have russia, then you realize that, well, there is a people, theres an opportunity to vcr. If you realized that box, well, it is after to the plate and gives off the top cheese. Thats why people try me. Or if people dont pass the use of incenses because its by inconvenience. Having all these people do want to be part of russia. And i thought it was the realize that a piece negotiation would be far more likely. Okay, the gentleman, im going to jump in here. Were going to go to a short break. And after that short break, well continue our discussion on ukraine state with r t. The, the that the process is on plumber to 10. 0 wow. No longer live the so im not fixing that amount of money. Was avoid the mistake then auto share because ive already, if you need another shan low, but i wanted to duplicate the apollo career center. Literally i did was i as one can easily do that for another email. I know that you quoted us when you might do that for us at 2. If you could just say for me, i sent you over the homeowner may offer us the on the would you put it on the restaurant . But again, they should be new sheets. I have come through and it offers cool lot, but just showing the money in the book that you know, hold on, let me know you got the ford motor and ask you some history. Awesome. Awesome. And that was back on my list. I pretty soon best bet i make all that i have to go in and were gonna come up with the reason im that im in the library and i figured theyve done with b print up to you. Ive been with us on the phone, what google shifts, you have to renew the money dont. So i was, you know, mid thank you m, when youre in the room, you will get onto to ship us. Like i said, i am pacific left on the the known in vietnam, american war, the vietnam war. Last, its almost 2 decades and dragged in numerous countries. Not any time between now and then you dont see it now. Wow. Its all on empty. Hundreds of thousands of american troops who was sent to the country to back the south vietnamese on me. I bought that, not Many American soldiers, limited resistors, most of us like the down entire villages and spread dangerous chemicals. And even lee by all right, did the americans ever fully acknowledge what they did on the vietnamese veterans ready to forgive . Yeah, yeah, yeah, thats that way. Its too late. But yeah, the welcome ex. Across stock were all things are considered on peter roosevelt. To remind you were discussing ukraine, the okay, when it go back to johnny here in in moscow because its a what you were saying right before the break, this soul jermaine and when western audiences need to understand the speak to the issue of Self Determination, particularly in the don bath in crimea because, you know, the, the west will always push Self Determination when its in, its geo political interest. But if its not, they ignore it and they denigrated speak to that for our audience, johnny. This is why i spend so much time in dry me with the boss because the indians should match. And if you listen to the is a piece of solution is, is possible. Its interesting that almost new western journalist goes the crimea or dumbass. Why . Because if they didnt go that they would have no choice, but to report exactly what i think the poor thing the majority once he bought a rush and its just not inconvenienced. I think it nbc, just learned that recently the device im looking for that i did and he was put on a famous ukrainian fitness. No, no on us for that, but most people use man. So what do you want to politically convenience, if people send these inconveniences done that just ignore often often estimate it. So its a very important point you make, but i think its important to listen to people who dont pass and copy and some of those you and kind of thought id say its more of a mix. The certainly more pretty creative and kind of in a dumbass, still huge support for the russians. So its important we listen to the people on both sides of this conflict and that stuff to me is, is the beginning of peace. When im going to see saucers, reports in the west, the media saying, well, maybe cry me and maybe even dont want to join us. I think then you might see uh the car moving towards these producers is yeah, yeah its, its really interesting, matthew, me, when we um it, we listen to people on the ground, you know, be before all of this started in 2014 Public Opinion poll. After another in ukraine, if it was, it was less way less than 50 percent around, maybe 25 percent of people that were interested in nato. And, and now were told you know that that is the prime director above others, zalinski regime. Which of course, when he was running for president , he was basically a peace candidate. And so nato is bitten off way too much of that. It can chew on and i, ive on my project and maybe im in the minority right now. But this was a bridge too far for this alliance, claiming itself and being defensive. I think we can see the end of nato as a result of this eventually matthew as well, i think the, the viability of the institution, which, when, i mean a lot of it is largely lots of title dates of well over 30 years ago. I but it has come to it is taking a huge hit obviously and at this point i, i agree with you the, the reason why the people on mass voted for zaleski was because they perceive that he was going to be an anti nazi. You know, he is a jew, hes going to be an anti nazi candidate. He was going to seek peace and uh, and some form of a win win. The point of coexistence with russia and he spoke that we catered to that demand quite well until the push came to shove and, and we found him now as the same puppet, that he always was simply biting his time and being used by agencies. I dont even think he fully understands and possibly that hes petrified of, of as well, but as a corrupt but for him. And as weve seen with his uh, the recent uh, documentary series by scott ritter. Um, but, but i think overall youre right, the, the, i, the very institution of nato has become the rest before world war 3. Nobody even a needle wants ukraine to be a part of it at this point. And, and it is with that losing it to an entire building to carry out coordinated action quote, you know, it is absolutely right, because right, and i mean, if they were, if nato was so concerned about the security and sovereignty of ukraine walk, it doesnt it . Inductive, it doesnt care about ukraine, it doesnt care about ukrainian people whatsoever. You know, um we heard at the very beginning of the conflict, then youd be secretary defense. So this is about weakening russia. It has nothing to do with ukraine. And then, you know, and ive said this before on this program is that, you know, we often ask, what will future historians say, but i think we have to look at a different a vocation. What will psychiatry say about an a government that is using their own people and bringing them to slaughter and even their friends are not going to come to their aid. Its amazing to me, ryan, it is, but i think they might want to take a step further back and realize this is pretty much what the Us Government has done throughout its history. But what i think is interesting is to that very point, you know, biden, in his joint press conference with the finish. President said that basically the, you know, the weight to induct them in tomato until boot and pulls out. And ultimately that they go, well, wait a minute, wont that just give, put in the justification to drag this out. And i think that really, again, kind of brings to the point you just said, isnt that seems to be the only point here is to really make sure that russia continues to, to use its resources to stay focused on this area. And i think really just like with syria, that ultimately feels like a secondary kind of we lost what were trying to do. So lets just keep brushing mired here because i alternately feel like this gets much bigger when you realize you what we talked about. But you know, the funding of the also have moved into what they really are the nazi a neo nazi elements and how this ties back to the c i gave you an operation, aerodynamic or project aerodynamic. And how would i really think was this was ultimately about flushing this out into russia was seating off these into ukraine and then that drip that wen