To discuss these issues as more im joined by my guest, martin j america. Shes an Award Winning journalist, and commentator. And in budapest we cross the drawer to study while we use a pod cast, read the gamble, which can be found on youtube and levels, or a gentleman crossed off your hands on with that, that means you can jump any time you want. And i always appreciated. All right, lets start out with george in budapest. Um the, the genesis of this program is an article to george sent me a info into go title that comes in big political trouble. But he still is a nightmare for europe, which, you know, i thank you, george, it was a interesting reading. I suppose the title itself kind of makes you want to think of the binary. So youre, if it isnt been a nightmare, right. And the, i mean i, its, i just, but its really astounding. Okay. Um the, the, the specter of the stroke of trump is haunting it, the europe. But one could make an argument that europe was much better off under trump. And by george, there youre absolutely right. In the youll be, your response was exactly the same as mine that the europeans think the back was a bad time. Then did the trump the is when essentially trunk was a, you know, we want to kind of bring this all, im still kind of slow and its like you can start thinking about your own security needs and well think about our, our own secure. What do you need . And this should have been a great opportunity for your vin 0 finally, to bring to it in potentially dysfunctional relationship. 1945 was a long time ago the long time ago, and it seems, you know, where my problem statement is. They said, i think 2017 or 2018 major was brand that the europeans who had before used to talk about the European Security and defense identity. You know, we have to do with things for ourselves. 0, stop relying on washington. Theres only been a great opportunity for them to just go ahead and use trump as an opportunity to do the re things as secure as you need. But now according to political, there are no absolute panic that trump is coming back. And trump is the only thing we were gonna have to, you know, rethink what were doing. Oh no, we just want to go on doing what the americans tell us to the we, you know, we want a lot of finding a new great, and we want to go on sanctioning russia. We want to go on, you know, even in the, creating the possibility of a nuclear conflict. Is this the regard as being the doing of a state of affairs that trump is written as an answer by says Something Like a bite and is the most trials atlantis. This president , just george h. W bush. As a what kind of a delusional world or a living in the i think thats why he said he might have deduction. This is like stockholm syndrome. I mean, you, you know, your, your worship your oppressor. Okay . Cuz thats what it sounds like. Youre gonna learn. Its really interesting in the article, obviously its political, okay its, its a, um, a, a, uh, an oregon propaganda, oregon of nato and of the western alliance. I mean, it, 1st and foremost, its no surprise that political always breaks the stories. Okay. Because theyre dismissed in order for, for brussels. But whats interesting in the article to me anyway, and you as a journalist, there are, there is no Public Opinion polls. Theres no, you know, average mr. And mrs. Europe in there. Its just all political functionaries, think tankers and all of that mean you dont get and you dont. Theres no gauging of Public Opinion, but of course i dont care about Public Opinion or you dont care about democracy. They dont care how the populace feels, how this conflict in your brain is affecting their bottom line on a daily basis. Its always a leap driven bar, you know, and the, the, the, all to go could have had a footnote to say. And one of the reasons why run this mess style is because we tend to report only on your leads. And i mean, i only have view points based on the leads on both sides. Valencia, i mean you, you use the expression style comes and youre also taking a task on that. Im still kind of seeing them doesnt mean that the person, the hostage themselves actually pays cash to the terrorist. Youre picking up the best. What do you have them . Youre actually paying, its not just that we are, were, were held hostage to american, stockholm syndrome de looks okay, every day. Okay. Youre going to bring it to the bottom. Okay. Yeah. But uh, i think the important part to read the article on the table. Its very much about how youre paying the least thing and they should be worried about the words nightmare came up. But um, you should be worried that he, you particularly should be worried. You know, 1st time really had a shock which trump, you know, um, he really did um, upset a lot of people with his, with his bellicose clumsy style. And we had to acclimatize us out to this guy who was not a political figure. He wasnt very smooth, it was a very eloquent. He was literally the bone in the china shop, but now were ready with our best. We know it will be get, you know, i think trump will be thinking the same thing. But this time around we should, we should now forget, we should never forget the, the well, the trump will, will, will when find themselves in as president , if he wins in 2024 is a very, very different world to the one that he started in, in january 2017, those as present the 1st time around, you know, this new will know that will mean the east, but want to do better expressions. The eastern is almost a much, much stronger now. So hell be looking at russia. Its stronger. China in just stronger, hell be looking at something that he probably doesnt really even understand the brakes, you know, which will have at least 5 new members this year. Lets rel, im off the top of my head. Saudi arabia, egypt, iran, argentina, and turkey was fine. Well probably join this. Yeah, thats just this. Yeah. You know, in the 3 year option, maybe another 5. So thats, thats a very much different situation that he will be and hell be looking at, but i think he will, you will be looking for new partners and you are a pay size is full year run before he knows more or less, the light allowed. He would be looking at fiscal leads, i think youll be, itll be looking at people like roger foundry person, and he will probably single outs. And im hungry as his new partners to the rates and bashed in your opinion. And i may, so every given option to the cab, theyll be kicked back to that from the french and germans macro. But you could, you could also make the argument. George is that it trump just healthcare, right . Okay, sorry. Okay. Thats because other things to do. Okay. You know, weve been babysitting, you know, for almost a decades weve had enough, weve got other things to, to, to, to contend with. And it gets down to the global trade, the competitive advantage. I mean, a, the know President Trump talked about it. He wasnt able to finish his mission, but you know, you and ive talked about 3 about this for years that the us has to re tool in, in amanda, its manufacturing if its going to be relevant at all. Okay. Because right now the west has a gemini because of what the Financial System and controlling trade. But once breaks, as barton is brought up, you know, its only a matter of time. They uh, when they will come up with their own currency and then the dollar, the less likely portal to go ahead george. Exactly right. And uh, yeah, if you take it back to the 2016 trying to figure it out, but need to really figure this out many years before when he was 1st thinking of running in the, in the year 2000. That russia is not americas problem. The dear, you know, then reveal russia. Sure. Be america does ally in the end of the game. I didnt do it. He wasnt above of atlantis list establishment. Even care about nato. So hed always believe the groceries potentially upon the United States. He always believe china, china is the big threat. Bobas this bill the here so that, so he views the green war universe that he thinks explicitly. But this guy, what he thinks that this is an absolute catastrophe in that its printing United States against russia, which should be an ally of the United States. And when he comes back, he will 1st of all have a lot of resentment towards the europeans because he seen that the europeans are obviously much more it favorably inclined towards the by them than the democrats, than they ever were. Toward him. He will have a lot of resentment over the british because, you know, he knows all about 1st of all, stealing everything that they were doing and the election. And i know, and he knows that he has a lot of, you know, hes going to be facing this documents day, probably tomorrow, logo. But he knows of what the british have. Okay. Would he bring to release it . Okay. And it was the, again, the president United States he was stopped by his own underline. Its exactly right, thats, thats what happened during his 1st done that they, all the british go to. Those will be in the, in the actually damage of special relationship. You can possibly release this information, he will remember all of that. And back in his 1st um, he tried to make a make nice with the, the establishment of the european establishment, the american establishment. Hey, i, you know, im not really a big threat to you. He hide all those people, the pump bells and a mattress and the rest of them. He is in the rooms. Cool. You came by the way these are going to do it this time and, and, and i think you, you the, your bins a working off out of a Small Business for 2 years or really small. I think weve seen the back of trump and i they are realizing now hes coming back, hes going to be leading. I mean, a enough seo then he was last time around the george, its thank us that back. I mean its, weve, its neither here nor there. Hes going to come back. Now going to talking about perceptions here. But martin, youre absolutely live a lot tips is really changed. And 1st of all, i dont think trump is going to have much space in for the european. So he has a very different agenda and like immigration, for example, china from trade or overall. And you know, the way the buying administration has helped degrade European Industrial base, particularly germany. I mean, its just not, its just not going to be worth is his time. And i think Going Forward thats going to happen. The respective of whos in the white house go ahead mark a may, will take a step back even further from, from policy. Im a real think that this is just a rather silly way of wasting a lot of time. Im, you should be focusing much more on the heart of the republican policies and particularly the mac, a obsessions, you know, which keep coming up, you know, itll be into work that will be big of it. Immigration, and american taking a bigger slice of global trade by hook or by crook they were to get these will be the main focus is i think, the relationship between the democrats and the you and your opinion, theres always been, you know, the perception is we can get along a little bit better with the democrats because they tend to stick to uh, previously agreements. And theyre not particularly precious that quite boring and predictable. Whereas republicans, theyre easy to get along with and talk to, but some we call a project wherever theyll go. And i think this will probably the super become through with trump. You know that what you just want to know what is next step will be, but i think the idea of the European Union and, and a, your country should start preparing. Now. Lets just start thinking about now, how do we cope with um, from 2 point oh, you know, um with what ive just said about the background of the new world order. You know how we really were. Yeah, he will try and develop road unit. Im show a book, you know, and i think the kick back from the french, particularly for my call, will be to push even how to, with this new idea of taking away the degree type of hosting system to go to majority voting. Some of the countries like among great to no longer and stop us progressing is whats incumbent, as you know, was upside disciplining. You can, will you want to come out of ukraine . The, id say it will be very well. I mean, it is very and so we have to get to go to a break here. But its very interesting is that the how trump will be able to use this and within the European Union and further american in just general, im going to jump in here. Were going to go to a short break. And after that short break, well continue our discussion on some illness. Stay with our to the the city is full wisdom, the wisdom, the word order. And indeed, or if you wish to continue with the traveler order is now dark beach. And you will see in, you agree, is the last attempt to put in the by the americans and the fuel western allies that they have moved on is put in the dry, truly being that is a multi didnt order that has no relation with the the, the 12 them at the cross that were all things are considered. Im beautiful. A bell. This is the cross top bull horns addition the all right, lets go back to george storage area talking about whats changed since january 2017, to the present. One thing that it seems quite irreversible, and they, and the democrats and their, their colleagues in the European Union have succeeded in creating a huge wedge and irreversible wedge. Dividing the United States from russia and invest because of the stockholm syndrome europe, from russia. That is the biggest single change. Its not going to the narrative even at the from makes it back to the white house too much has happened. Theres not gonna be any kind of reconciliation. The best we could probably help or is a very, very cold and ugly cold war george. Well, i think thats a very likely. Um, on the other hand, youre something to think about, especially that um chrome. Um, if he actually does make moves towards bringing this down thing to an end up role, thats what hes promised thats, thats it. You know, hes been the one that the collection problem is that he continues to repeat. I will end this in 24 hours. So hes gonna have to do something to make that happen. So now once he does that, we know that the, the Political Security establishment in the United States will go into high gear to try to stop him. And uh, and when people say no feature in the they will impeach him and then he will also go to the european political establishment, which is also that will be in panic mode that they and also, you know, see whatever they can do in order to stop in and there are indications of left in the political all to go that they were ready and some kinds of collusion between european politicians and the political stage as on the hill to make sure that somehow trunk cannot do anything drastic like withdrawal from nato or withdrawal assistance from ukraines so right away, were just setting up a political crisis almost from the beginning. I mean that this is going to be the, the, the huge issue. And then again, you know, its for its own picture. I mean, he will probably survive and then hell go against the europe again. But his problem in europe is that he doesnt have too many allies at the moment. The, obviously, as victor, all obama is explicit. They come out and in favor of him for ours are, is obviously a trump in book. So obviously a way for us goes, i mean, hes not, you know, hes not standing it. Thats as far as we can say in the next election. So not like thats what changed. I mean them there might be, you know, waiver us who will go withdrawn problem. Uh, you know, he says hes the but hes the election when a so im going to go with him. But at the moment he will have a recalcitrant your ups, but that might not displease it means i the yeah, i dont, i dont need these bogus. I, i think, you know, you know, particularly, i mean, depending on how the situation in ukraine involves, i mean a trump presidency, youll just do this. We wipe our hands. Okay. I mean, of course, that will still lead to some form of impeachment, but i mean, it will put your on notice is that if you want to resolve your Security Problems on your account, then you better take care of it. Okay . And i think that that will shift a lot of people, but what it will do is it will create a huge crate. Okay, chaos inside of nature, what so many be but maybe from blog post that with me i remember top fluids being charged up to date either. Trump is completely ignorant of what the lights is about and it seems to be always pointing 5 dimensional chest. I think you remember those conversations go ahead looking. Yeah, i think i think youre absolutely right. Youve mailed it, but i think the deposit is probably coming from night to itself. Its probably coming from the mistakes of next to, you know, im wondering what were going to do. If he goes ahead with any of these ideas to be asked. If you look back in the newspaper, ill try to remember the 1st time he came to europe, the infamous a in nature summit, where he pushed a couple of the World Leaders aside to very quickly get in front of the crowd. So that folks, i mentioned that original to the door and finally correct. The montenegro i think is uh it. Okay. But um the point is, is, is that i think that this some refinancing, it will be something we bouncing in this new world world or between america and you have, and i think its trump may not have to go that far and cancel. Do you kind well he may well just simply say to your bins, but we spent much too much money on our side and now its your tongue. So you have a choice, you know, were not going to spend another 100000000. 00 a year in ministry age for these people in a world or we dont believe it when i go boats has a lot of thoughts as it might come saying spend money on politics spend money on jobs, you know, it may well be that the europeans we pushed into this ultimate, some web i. They would have to seriously think about spending much more than 2 percent of gigi be you know, much, much more or simply cut the losses. I get this shipping okay. Mark, because markham already the, the, the, what we call the welfare state is under threat in europe. Okay. I mean, the us, there is almost kind of a permanent state of austerity. And now they want to of defense spending, how terrible that is, and is that in europe, in your opinion . So kind of the day to both of you. Where are they going to get the young man that wants to fight these voice . Unless you are, you know, thats the intent to bring in moldova, so you can have them, adobe, an army by the natos wars. Martin, i think it was the, what will happen is the europeans are site. Thats