Also burned the house belonging to the christian community. The situation does not appear under control. As a large contingent of police has been called from the district headquarters. There have been gunshots and the police are using tear gas. Well, protestors are refusing to leave the area as well. That is where we leave the mid week news run off for another. But if youre in the mood to go digging a little further into that or indeed any of those stories are t dot com is a solid starting point dollars. Fresh content, lively discussion. The hello and welcome to cross stock. Were all things are considered . Non peter lavelle, nato is made it clear in teams. Its you cream proxy war against russia as ex, essential, as such, russia to cease the conflict as a central, it could not be otherwise. There will be no negotiated end to this conflict. One side will lose. The smart money is not on buying for nathan, the cross hatching nato state. Im joined by my guess. Lucas gauge in brick. Hes a marine veteran author in philosopher in salt lake city. We have david pine. He is Deputy Director of National Operations for the task force on national and homeland security. And in geneva we crossed through the tone. He is a swift journalist, writer, an politician, alright, prospect rolls in effect, that means you can jump anytime you want. And i always appreciate, lets go to break for us. Lucas. Theres a lot of things in play. Theres a lot of moving pieces here in the last new cycle. Zalinski still determined to retake crime me. Uh, we have the uh, billing this summit with the nato gathering uh, in about 10 days time. Um and we have this prospect of a false flag being mentioned intentionally into the media. Is lot of scare mongering involved here co and one more thing the counter offensive in ukraine is not going is, is scheduled no surprise there. Whats the lay of the land, my friend, what do you see here . Go ahead. Well, i see that the russians are still doing what they are doing tactically, taking their time. Theyre not trying to put themselves in a meat grinder. And ukraine is doing the exact opposite. And theyre being pressured by nato and washington to go in full force. And as you mentioned, its not working out that well, but they have to sell the story that extra going well and people arent really buying it. I see more and more people questioning the narrative. And, you know, ukraine has been getting very desperate doing acts of terrorism stretching back since the beginning of the war from the bombing of the bridge ascending barrier davina. Now that the dam being flooded, i mean all these things, its not a sign of someone winning the war. So russians are doing the great that theyre doing very well on the battlefield there. Ive heard people say 7 to one killed death ratios with the ukrainians are losing 7 people, one russian. So its not looking good for them. And i think that the russians will went out this war. I just, how many people before the negotiations . How many lives are lost before they sit down and actually talk peace . Thats really the question. I absolutely agree. And i, an on the back of that, i would suggest that everyone go to some stack and read John Mearsheimer as late as missive, which is a basically reflection of lucas as lots and mine. Let me go to d. N a in geneva. We keep hearing about these different scenarios about negotiations that the ukrainians can we conquer a certain amount of land, cutting off the land bridge to you can try me. Theyll have a better spot at the negotiating table. But theres, theres something wrong with that assumption. What, why would russia even sit down and negotiate and table at this point . Go ahead in geneva. Yes, i dont think that the russia is, is now ready for the fall negotiations because for sure we have to step thats. Its exactly the existence of the site. Because if they go now on the goose chase from the wall anywhere we continue because of the crime has read the accept ups. But the question shines, as i said, the reading to uh do do do to may call on to the really work on crap. Nothing to be done best with crimea. So tom, russia, its not the time to negotiate. They can negotiate only if the recording is right next to the member off may to, which is not the case. No, and no peaceful where you go to you. As long as im here we can spend see the try shop is of the types fall there at the gym. I mean, in the world. Well thats, thats exactly the point. Im glad you mentioned that because david, this is, you know, its, its not one ukraine, one. So i mean, we can listen to whats a wednesday. The is a panhandler. He just wants money and he wants prestige. He wants a wants to pump up his ego fine. Are plenty and people in the west the want to do that. But david, its not what ukraine wants, its what washington wants. Okay. And what washington wants is a strategic defeat of russia. Well, russia is not going to go along with that. And you know what, in between time and in the middle is ukraine being grinded into dust . David . Yeah, thats true. Um, you know, the, the dirty secret i guess, or the secret to the western media refuses to admit as a, you know, of course, russian beta ukraine did. So after being provoked by, of buying the nato. But putting this at these terms on the table since day to the war, ive been covering that in the National Interest and my real wars of stack websites and most recently of september uh, following the next ation of uh for uh you probably know lost by the Russian Federation of the russia essentially stating that you did a t all of its nearly all of its objectives. And the remaining objectives could be obtained through a piece that goes with the on to go to the steel. And that, that offers the table since september. So, russias really been the side, its been trying to end the war, and the world would have ended it for us. You had his way back in march, march. 31st of course has went out to the peace deal was signed between uh, russian ukraine, which he grinned and then ended up completely ranking on after it was pushed to do so by the, by the ministration. And then Prime Minister of the you k, uh, worst johnson. So that would save the lives of perhaps 450000. 00 or more a radio and so also soldiers and civilians. And i do agree with you with lucas that uh, you know, the pre counter offensive. It has been going very badly with ukraine suffering. No, no 71. 00 casualties and treat one overall more than a rest during the war. So this, lori is going to end it, were going to do a huge piece the sooner we do into better rush. Uh, you know, the key i think is to, uh, uh, conclude a free and style pharmacist agreement. And the warrant gets it for one control. Yeah, well you know, i come across as im going to look into your come across this, the korean analogy is that the problem with using it in this case here is that the major powers all agreed to the, to the pharmacist in, in, on the korean peninsula. I dont see, i dont see any reason world in the world by russia has to compromise on anything. We had the minute process. Okay. We already know what the negotiating position of the west is, is to lie. Lucas, and thats correct. And the screen is were violated. So the russians have no reason to trust the west at all. They have to win completely in this war, and unfortunately thats gonna take more lights on the creating. And so, i mean, of course the russians are losing as well, but not as many people as the ukrainian side. And its just a tragedy to see this and fold because it is the west pushing the ukrainians into that make right, that they dont care about your grand. Ive said it since ive comments in the beginning, this war along the guy said theyre just using his cannon fodder, cause they want to week and russia with sanctions and this war and everything, its backfire. And peter, nothing has worked at his strength and brushes economy. Its a strength of the alliance with china and other countries, and to show the world that the western hedge and monique is collapsing, nobody trust america anymore. Nobody trusts nato people. Question why didnt even have nato at this point. Its only causing problems and you know, people are saying that the premiums wanna join, they dont, they dont even have to join at this point because its already that the west is acting as if theyre already part of nato. So there are hardy putting troops in the ground mercenaries from several countries, not just ukraine fighting russia. Its every one fighting russia. Yet again, im so glad. Lucas brought that up because defacto ukraine is already a member of nato. But without the article 5 guaranteed, i mean that in washington must be popping champagne bottles every day. So the cravings are willing to die, but we dont have to protect them. This is amazing. And the arms about producers, theyre making tons of money. I mean, this is the, the best possible outcome because in the us as no obligation, other than to watch, you know, the ukraine grind itself into, into ashes. Its remarkable that theyve been able to get an elite and ukraine to go along with this. Maybe even more remarkable, gentleman is that youre a goes, is being led by the nose by washington, by a guy that is comatose in the white house. Go ahead and geneva. Yeah. Yeah. Youre the part of the stuff. Nobody cares about to credit him. Because im every against dont care about and credit and they to doesnt get to and even quoting and because on that doesnt care about is on citizen because those events easy way being to 5 grand kids the last quite an install year. So nobody can spend duration, they have no reason to care or bulk and credit is now ready to fight against the last or the result of quite me. Yeah. And done by us, which rush out theres a reset or that the that the homepage that for good 2 reasons. Because the release of the russian, speaking of the boss and also crime the requirement i was invited to 1014 back to the russian speaking people. And as the russian from the boss, really a tech to buy the or inquiring and go down that down there. When i bought the 14000 people refuse in their last year. So the frontier wash of the have to but that, thats also the reason why were rushing into the, into the new quiz because to protect the ethnic and russia speaking people the best. Dont forget it. And know, yes, later, later we probably need to do is just uh, the next the, during the next summit there, wed probably get a, give a huge and even higher commitment to claim for fighting to do last my last the big g, but david mailed him a lot of things, i have no doubt about that, but david, but data they will not keep the membership. David go ahead. Yes, absolutely correct. You know, its a, its an open secret that youve created. Well, never joined data. I mean, certainly as a factual data member, but theres never been any chance for the crated joint data for many reasons of france and germany veto that long ago, back in 2008 until recently they helped the same position. Francis recently come around the other side of a turkey and hungry would also join germany and in between the membership at any point, even if the war was over. And it also is a requirement of nato membership that a country need to aspirin. Never a whole lot have any territory dispute on any 4 groups occupying spiritual group. And that could only be achieved with the by and praying formally seed in all uh, territory interruption control to russia. So thats the only prospect the i agree with you that for a very technical legal point of view, but i, i, i dont put it past nato breaking its own rules, but you are, the reasoning is actually spot on gentlemen, im going to jump in here. We can always go to a hard break, and after that hard break, well continue our discussion on natos fate say without the the, i look forward to talking to you all that technology should work for people. A robot must obey the orders given it by human beings, except were such shorter is a conflict with the 1st law show you our events as a patient. We should be very careful about our personal intelligence at the point, obviously is to place a trust rather than to the area. I mean with the artificial intelligence, we have somebody with deeming the robot must protect this phone. Existence was on the the welcome x across the dock were all things are considered. Im peter in the mail to remind you, were discussing nato state the. Okay, lets go back to look is the, the thing thats making the headlines right now and i think its a intentional war. Mongering is the possibility of a false flag. Of course, the narrative is the russians for some reason will damage or bomb Nuclear Power plant in its own possession. I cant really understand the logic of it, and its never explained in the mainstream media. But when i hear talk of that, i understand a couple of things. Nato is losing. Im not going to say ukraine, because this is natos worn out. So nato is losing. Okay. And its getting desperate. I think youve probably heard of Lindsey Graham and Richard Blumenthal talking about is a Senate Resolution that if any kind of new killer action is happens at that plant, it would be a trigger. A article 5 we action by nato. Remarkably blumenthal said, this is, you know this, this is not a move out of desperation or panic. Well then why did even use the words desperation and panic. Ok. It shows me that they are moving up the escalation lot. Are your thoughts, lucas . Yes. Anyones going to do a false flag, its going to be nato and the ukrainians, or some other people doing it like north stream pipeline. You know, all these other things that i mentioned, this aspiration of their duty during the bombing of the premier bridge. This is all a, this is a sign of someone losing a war. The russians are not doing these kinds of things are not assassinating. People are not sabotaging anything. Like i mentioned the dan before. So if theres a false flag, its been a 100 percent p, nato and its allies, you know, and thats obvious to everyone who understands how the script displayed. Its always that way, you know, the United States or its allies and say, dont cross this red line and then suddenly its crossed by the people that theyre paying, whether it be the jihadists and syria, or is another country. Its always the same setup and it works all the time. But people are starting to see that this is come on. This is, makes no sense of with the russians do this. They wasnt just like they didnt bomb word stream to. Well, you d, i mean im glad that lucas brought it up because the scenario that we had with um, uh, the use of chemical alleged the use of a dirty bomb and syria. This is exactly the same thing that theyre trying to convince get. And its warmer and a new crane, theyre talking about it. I think its more of a ploy by the other zalinski res, seem to mobilize Public Opinion as a morgue goes on. And, and of course it is that terrified the population in that country and further afield. I dont understand why as im kind of Nuclear Reaction with within the wind blow and go east and not only to the west, that doesnt make any sense here. But these people have not been making sense for a very long time. Nato is nato is very existence at stake right now. Its put all of its eggs in one basket. Yes, you know, we have to understand that each, this type of justice shop can oh, you know, and if you look as since the stopped in a peaceful every 2 months, you have a big event laptop such as a workshop, out loud stream that cost all that and so on, you know, go to product, your shock into Public Opinions in the western countries, the fable for supporting the girls. So thats fine. But the point status of the stucco or just a follow up for them to follow up that can be used as such to create such a shot. You know the 2 pro hawk. Oh, the big dresser box. Oh, for the queen. Especially neutral question. Um it is using on the road, which is the case seems to be the name of discount or price you. So a, my view is not today if i see where the dog uh, fed, so frustrated attack and just to follow up on the 2nd was that can happen. Uh, due to this, we have to do to cross the dr. Do the now i do this very important called the rest of the course of the, the printer from tech to do the as good as the direct to use this information on the role as a to be kept in the west that they need to do. So thought id, but such a short events. Yeah, david, i mean in my introduction i talked about how business didnt turned into an existential war for both sides. But there was a craving choice on the part of nato. Its never been explained to western publics what the Strategic Value is of ukraine. It hadnt been during the cold war after the cold war. And a certainly is of no since aging value to go to europe and then and when they throw in the usual in its usually they may use platitudes, as you know, its about democracy. Well, lensky cancel the election. This. There is no political opposition. Parties dont exist, theres no freedom of speech um, etc, etc. And but they still can roll this out as it is. It is a excess dental for the existence of democracy in the west. In general. I mean, this is this growing absurdity. David. Uh, yeah, i mean theres uh, i mean is the whiskey put it in to the service that were just cutting democracy in ukraine because there is no democracy in ukraine. Uh, you know, zaleski is acted to us acetate in a prison. All political positional years is uh, you know, bought 11 different political parties. Uh, take it over all of our position, tv networks and, and have them broadcast. So you probably get a 247. So theres really no democracies all the work were doing there. And theres no, were still strategic interest at all. Theres no National Interest at all for us to be involved in ukraine. And in fact, i would argue theres no a nationalist, theres no security interest for nato to be involved to migrate down over here. Emissions. Ukraine is kind of referral to, to nato, and its of worse generally. I mean, overall and support dispute between what rushing you pray over uh, swap the territory about the size of a baltic nation. So this is a war that has on only one ending russia overwhelmingly, matches over mattress, the pre and in terms of military power. Its, its got a new call and deliver inside of larger and stuff. 35 times more territory. It occupies nearly a 5th of ukraine and theres no fee brand getting any of that back. And as 5 times more people, 5 times more takes our to her systems and combat aircraft. So we need to recognize that along with this work, it was on the grid of the death and destruction you created. And the more territory that russia is likely to gain the worse and the worst piece terms that will pull the ultimately being posted onto well and to say theres only one more step to take outside this false flag, which i anticipate, sorry, but i do a bit thats the mindset of these people. But what we have to deal with here is that they will be the