Opportunity to build a new world order was welsh because the air, when he was president just has to have a war. He didnt leave to see the current conflict in ukraine, but isnt a new world order finally shaping out, due to the use of force by russia. Well, to discuss that im now joined by rain miller, some Professor Emeritus told him university. Im a former advisor to me, co guard by charles on issues of International Law. Professor millers and then its great to talk to thank you very much for being available. Happy to be with you. Thank you. Now youve written before the professionally base, you have had 3 different lives being born and raised in soviet era. Estonia then moving to moscow to get to your doctorate in law and then moving all the way to kings college, london and teaching there for quite some time. And that gives you a very inverse of tile exposure to various systems through various ideologies. And what i find very interesting is that, unlike many other public intellectuals of your generation, you are open about uh oh, im accepting about a parts of your professional life, isnt it . Im safe, at least in the west to be, you know, so open about your connections, historical connections with russian. I have benefited from it professionally sure, which they have. Because how you have at least 3 different viewpoints from which to all the world as towing in a small country, you on a well was pro top and then a restaurant. When i went to rush, i was taken to the army. I didnt think it was the soviet union, the soviet union in moscow. I wasnt actually a very good one if i jump up even. And so as a staging boss code become there. And when i finished my country, i went to moscow university. I graduated from the Law Department and link wish to get past the listings as or as well you went all the way to as one point serve as a, as an advisor to the president of the you know, so yes, it was at the end of the 1980s, where i picked the beginning of the 1996. Exactly. And then i went back to his tonja being the 1st deputy, 40 minutes down for a while is for 40 minutes to even. And on the, when the i watching while i to, to a little fick, im the weeks as a centennial profess. So lets see. I went to a lot of them and the states that have have for my wallet with went to yes, i taught. No, thats a period of a very cosmopolitan life, which many of us experienced has ended a couple of years ago. But i know that in 2019 before it actually ended, you receive the order of friendship from the hands of none other than blood. To me if which and then im sure uh that kind of association may have cost to some personal or professional relationship. And certainly even if it must have become a liability after yes, i said 2020 to the of the such a life to in the, to ask you in me a lot profession release to see the world from different and go us. But yes, i have lost friends uh on this way and it is not easy even in their family with my son, sometimes we have cool. It brought up in the video cage. Okay. Do they ok. We have 2 friends of yours. We have friendly of course, but i have lost that because of this. I have my have all tail of friendship. For example, i always specially because uh i am not condemning uh once height is lea a bad option uh, innovation over the youre not the embracing it either because i know youve been pretty critical of some rushes actions, which i hope we can talk about. But before that, i know that when you received the order, you said that International Law, which is your main professional subject International Law, as we know it could not exist without the russian. Ironically it, before the years later, its validity is enforceability is indeed being called into question. Do you think international more as a universally accepted and upheld set of norms . Does it still work . It does it even though i believe its the national low, is not booley crises, batteries, with crises, the every domain of International Relations and Domestic Affairs as well. But International Law has called laps, hopefully for a while by the task. Because International Law and a jordan, this short presentation, when i was doing this, i want to also that why, but also because the national law has been based on the balance of power by chance of interest, but also power a special live. But this balance of power to be out in the world into 19 nineties. So there was no one to balance. The American Power there was within suits of the end. And so they both jump off for a kind of the world to me. Removed from the warm center, it is now called the Aerospace International court interest. Yeah. Yeah. So essentially this phrase conceptualized what was in the works for some time even before that because i think its mostly the by the ministration that is using it very actively. They never ever use International Law anymore. No, no. Oh, you know, its pushing into 1990 is when the these interventions of move to western countries in africa and latin america. Sometimes they by little full. Sometimes they were a little full for i. So it was in 1999 when a nate to embody the so the over at cost of, of then ill study faced is interesting to that off to a they to, i will then there was a International Commission on, for the stuff that, you know, of the United Nation created and they phone date. So you to interesting a that the war was you lee ago, but really cheap to me. So this was such a clear a reference that the whole something hes prohibited by International Law throughout higher videos. Likely, panel brand news, which can be protected, even in case the International LawInternational Law set aside many uh, also the instances likes the creation of international with premium, the ports um at which if they were effective and impartial, this would have been if there were also a i will come up with a mr. Uh, reference number, theres a impartiality, it presupposes equality. I mean, and if for suppose the law, i mean, i think thats the basis of the very core deficient of the is that what makes it a lawyer is that it gets applied to everybody when its applied selectively . Can you claim that its still law . It disappeared all most the during the these 19 ninetys. Im going to your dock will not of 2003 which brought to all sold lee code and a by the way it is interesting guy. Im leaving him that you ok and the Legal Profession has to be all the ways very uh, just pick the, the boss. So, and the International Lawyers into, for an office, a gave them the assessment of, uh, this innovation of your rock into a phone street. And they all declared that it was a leak. But now things have become different even in the country with their own. The flow boss, fairly respected, whether the po, up on the distance, very often teams respect International Law. You mention many wars that the west initiated and 4th, so theoretically speaking, uh, people in the west. No, that were exist. Why do you think theres so much unnerved by this conflict with russian because they have been exposed towards before to conflicts before . Yeah, if you this, that maybe not really a very good question to if it is the most important question, why is such a different reaction . For example, what the, the iraq innovation of telephone, the 3 of us called a shop count or a better each and a. So there was no shopkins or in europe, there was a disrupt and or in the yes, i have to do the compartment and so on. All of a ive mentioned. All right, the other will maam. I guess to be out. So high as for bossman had no boots on the crown of though in the rock, which was a bit different, but all started with High Altitude of boardman. I dont think that it is only because it is in europe, and they are full of all costs. Closer, it is also that somebody has said, chinese, the power of the United States and collect the file west and they have full ease on the accept about. So i dont know the author attending, shes where my and the ones that now we do so as i see already is a challenge. And i believe they are for the very end up proper. Com diabetes. Or, of course, the effective you know, in other similarities with the soviet union, perhaps now professor millers and we have no propaganda, but we have to take a very short break right now. We will be back in just a few moments. Stay tuned. The or concert or russian states never. Ive side as im one of the most sense community. Best ingles, ill send, send up the speed. What else calls question about this . Even though we will then in the european union, the kremlin media machine for states on the rush to day and split the r t. Suppose next, even our video agency, roughly all the band on youtube, the Fitness Center for the question, did you say even closer to the the extra world of parts, various re, miller, some, a Professor Emeritus as a tale me University Professor mallerson and when you were receiving it and receiving that border of friendship from the house of flies, you may put them. You also said that that period is in history of the unit polarity, of the United States, appointing itself as the indispensable nation was a fairly anomalous and temporary phenomenon in the history of International Relations. But the americans are clearly not giving it out without a fight. And i want to ask you, how far do you think the current confrontation between the west on the one hand and russia possibly china, possibly some other uh, uh, disagreeing countries. How far do you think if they go, i believe it will co, a white default. And a, it is a attendance it, which will continue for decades at least, and maybe even longer. But i, who, and even though this is, i hope, i hope so that the equity of face health confront, based on these specially in ukraine will. And with the new york future with kind of ceasefire and may compromises. But, but i the new world order if it the purchase of some kind of force or humanities of course. But i dont think that it will be this world where that. Ready will be a piece between all the countries in the i was know was there, but there will be, in my opinion a, they collect the west, the about the list and then there press to like god, outright child and i the wrong eating. The african, a countries who are not, uh, fully english, to collective uh what, so i said, i dont want to turn the full boss very think distinguish a, pete is a diplomat and i could tell me who wrote that no power who has had an opportunity to come in late as failed to dont mean neighbors. You may be one of the ions law. So International Relations of joe politics they have for it is, has been natural, probably that the government is states wants to come to you to tell me like the world. And there was, this would be somebody who brings to sensory. So they set a super bowl out because whats at is an operation i believe. And in the beach i you also mentioned is that when the pizza go mean a theater the world, it was not the whole world. But what, what he said now is that hes only one named patio, a pow wow. Yeah, the one center which wants to donate this isnt that bad . Racially, thats never being uh, sold without somebody a who would have to be there to use that. Who was the will of these 3 of them . Are you guys dont, i dont even have the domain names, but also they want everybody to be, it becomes like him or he comes to having the same value of 17 both not on the of the interest but the value is on. So the professor miller says for that to happen, you know, a nation has to have enough resources because domination is not good. It brings you not only advantages, its a huge liability. And one of the reasons why the, heres the sorry, didnt leave so long as its wanted, it was because its simply couldnt deal with all the mount team, domestic and external pressures. Oh, uh. Do you think that is this thing that this is something that the west takes into account, that it simply doesnt have the capacity neither mental nor Financial Capacity to impose its will either through military force or through soft power on the rest of the world. Because its kind of, you imagine somebody uh, even if they were in the american washington talking like, you know, oh i, but they say for the, for the now is this, i mean like you for you just counting on what you like, deep and then the to be elected, you have to maybe, you know, america, yes, they will. They may come to census because of they have overstretched. The but now i at the left. Ok. Just on a recently yes. Having went up 20 as a lower, the government is about to shut down because they dont. Yeah. Cannot pass the bad about yes, but they can still the because of having got all the stories of color and survey is guns to uh, exploit to other countries. Uh uh, both sanctions, i guys, they, they own allies in europe even so they come to somebody probably, but how long could convey so i dont know, maybe they also of probably its a soviet union call up because of different know the one that they serve a stretch and have dentist on it and so on that about 5 to they cannot make system was a role in new fact. And also there was so many different be a nation, say a warranty to have the independence of. So well say, and by the way, we have the same phenomena among the american norman, the american olives because you have so dear randy, you have turkey or have a number of other countries or not striking out directly to the United States, but quite nelson go against american, the wishes, especially, lets say the saudis will have the resources im, can i lower pretty, you know, im the bedframe. Oh, i do therefore know where you every, especially now freak that, uh, in uh, from separate guys. Uh, to french. Uh, uh, globally, that they uh, use this opportunity that the, ill try is a fighting guy for its independent to buy a place in the was a, so they all so full lloyd and this is probably very dangerous for them to play the fuel thing. And i did states and the your leaders in france like my crawling these very much water with the, about the, the, i dont see uh, us call up soon as that, so like thats a little bit junior on but, but maybe in the future they also a tried to lead me to the patients in the nation of the world. They, i try, you know, to have allies in the, in the they have. But also in the a sounds like a china, this is the most, uh, maybe uh, important concern for them. Are you there boy, in the ukraine has and deflected they had to interest and a slightly from gimme a very focus on that for a, for, for a moment. Because you, you did call a rush us military operation and you create a possible geo political miscalculation. But when it comes to international affairs, i think it puts many countries in that position when they have to choose fairly carefully on the, you know, way, the american pressure or pressure on one hand, the own resources that own tre ties that own. Do political a policies on the other hand, then many are choosing uh, not feeling dependent cause, but at times that is far more dependent then it was a year and a half ago. Would it be fair to say that a cynical is it is because of the loss of life on both sides, that multiple arrow to you is actually being held by the russian operation in ukraine . Yeah. The american pressure. Yeah. When i say that this may be a, a, to a political discrimination. First of all, of course, you do have pressure at the bus and eventually because, you know, i havent lived in that after i visited you creating the and many times also i have friends in to upgrade and therefore i didnt believe that the, they have more about the stuff between the ukraine them, why dont you believe . I mean, look, its a very interesting question. Not, not. I wasnt believed. Im also i have the last name, but shouldnt we allow for that possibility the for the you certainly. Exactly. So because in my articulated 2014 ukraine, victim of geopolitics, published in china, the training is general of International Lawyers and white people. Oh, deep. Now also they are, it was too warm that like cause it will, will between the georgia and the restaurant they may be, i will between the ukraine and at our shop. So it was professional approach. And i, i am, might be a voting to box the carter and c. I a different direct that who he and his last book it a he read you as a produces a, hes a male, this book on police price where he was that acceptance of for ukraine, georgia for nate will may lead to in the, um, conflicts. So g 4 seats, uh at these and i would say uh, one higher level of storage and petitions. Uh, i do. I am not naming his neck, but how good for him. But uh, so we have the conversations recently, and he told me that he had told you my due for a tooth on that 14 9th. Uh, but the 19142014 uh to the american on by southern is tonja. That nato membership for your grand would be a rental line, which means the domain is either some people use a vis a storage implementations id believe because the 2 main, the we didnt want to, we at where engine as i do now, are you professionally g as a Police Station i as an academic and also practitioner of International Law, east west for see about that he maybe happened as a so on but uh it was sold with that as human beings who we didnt want to accept or. Yeah, of course because as you saw thats a huge, huge tragedy. Now. Um professor millers and in my introduction i reference Mikhail Gorbachev to whom you served as an advisor on International Law. At the time when he was, i think, the 1st and only president of the ussr, and he was a strong believer in peace. But he defined it as not unity in similarity, but the unity in diversity in the comparison and conciliation of differences. Do you think that kind of piece is still feasible between the rush and the west and a saw . What would it require looked into the future. I dont foresee things have a come to the file and it does n