News. 2 2 2 2 id like to read you something written by our guest today. Quote. On january 14th, victor, my de la son, just set us a 33 year old mother from mexico city, stepped into the rio grande, holding the hands of her 2 children. You are lie, ruby h 10, and jonathan augustine, very honest, the sunshine 8. We dont know how they got into trouble in the strong current, or if they even knew how to swim, group obeyed mexicos board. The rescue service saw them struggling and called the Us Border Patrol agents went to the park gate a couple of miles from the boat ramp. Soldiers of the Texas Military department refused to let them through. Mexican authorities tried to rescue the mom and her children. They were able to save 2 others, but the 3 drowned and group of beta could only return to mexico with their bodies. Later, the Texas MilitaryDepartment Said that its soldiers standing behind a chain link fence, hedge shown high powered lights on the water and use their night vision goggles, but somehow had seen nothing. The white house called the event tragic and used it as evidence to support its case before the us supreme court. Challenging texas is assertion that it is entitled to a wrecked razor wire board or barriers and use its own soldiers to stop migraines from crossing the river. The texas governors policies are cool, dangerous and inhumane. So the d h s spokesperson . Congressman Joaquin Castro added this. He said quote, texas officials allowed to children to drown on quote. Yet within days, president ial biden said in a statement, if Congress Passed the bill to continue funding, warren ukraine and genocide and guys, he would agree to and t migrant provisions that are part of the reason they last on shot and her children round a quote, i will shut down the border immediately. The president promised. Id like to welcome david bacon to the show. Hes a photo journalist of fine art photographer, author, and Union Organizer, and hes also inactive as his work can be seen in museums and galleries around the world. Welcome david. Thank you so much for joining us on the big admirer of yours, john. Thank you for having me. Oh, thank you. Believe me, the feeling is absolutely mutual. David, i want to begin by admitting to my own bias. I am the grandson of refugees. Many members of my family came to the United States as what are sometimes now called illegal aliens. All they wanted to do was to work, pay taxes and help their poor relatives in the old country. They learned how to speak english, they worked hard. They waited for an amnesty and then they got their citizenship, their children, and their childrens children, including me, have become very successful. Its the american dream. And frankly, the country simply cannot run without immigrants, whether theyre documented or not documented. So why the hostility toward people who happen to not have a visa, why the anger, the hatred, and the unrelenting work to throw these people out of the country. A well we hear a lot from trump and his mug acolytes. I think we ought to really step back in and, and ask ourselves really who is angry here . Because i think really the majority of people in this country are not hostile and dont hate immigrants. In fact, when republicans try to run one repressive measures around immigration as their main political blank, so to speak, they lose selections. Um, but i think its also true what youre saying because there is a long history of racism in this country. You know, the ku klux klan was organized against black people, but also against immigrants, against catholics and jews, guests, mexicans. And the last reason i think why this continues to be a problem is, is basically that keeping immigrants vulnerable and documented, for instance, is profitable. Look at the profit, so the agriculture industry, which is built on and documented those labor, thats right. And on thats makes, it gives some people at least a self interest and trying to keep things the way they are. And so making that kind of racial and the at the end, were going to stare him when i see old news clips, or even clips from old president ial debates, where people like richard nixon, ronald reagan, even george h. W. Bush are talking about undocumented immigrants, their positions are full of compassion. None of these men, all of whom consider themselves to be conservative. Republicans could today survive in the, in the Republican Party. Many of them would be seen as to pro immigrant even to be democrats. When do you think things changed in the us toward, toward migrants, at least this, this harden shift to the right. And why did the National Attitude swing so far in the anti immigrant direction . At least among conservatives to well, the Republican Party is not the same party as it was in the presidency of all rigging rights proud. Reagan almost been extremely conservative, anti communist president , but he did sign the Immigration Reform and control act in 1986, which was the laws that gave immigration in the state to about 2 and a half 1000000 people. Now it also had some repressive aspects to it. It sort of initiated the whole process of notarizing the border for instance. So even then, um it was sort of a, a compromise. Right . But the Republican Party is that exist under donald trump is not interested in a compromise of any kind that would offer a legal status. For instance, the people who dont have it. Democrats, you know, they really have not oppose this in a way theyre running scared on, you know, when biden proposes compromise that you referred to earlier. And i think his main reason for doing that was to try to kind of blunt the attack of, of drugs and extreme republicans on that said the biting is soft of migration. So instead of really providing a real principle that a fierce defense of the rights of migrants and the rights of working people in general, what he did was, he said, well, im gonna, ill do, you know, im going to close now the border on thats not something that kind of stops the republicans in their tracks. If anything, it gives some even more, more enter my check. David, tell us about these actions by the governor of texas, greg abbotts to you serve some of the federal Governments Authority to control border access. Just policies had been ruled unconstitutional, but he just keeps added any way. What should we expect to see there as well . You know, some of this policies, as you say, are put on hold. These appealed the ruling that said that it was unconstitutional for him, for us to put on razor wire barriers in the middle of the rio grande river. As a way of preventing mike, well, yeah, he says preventing migrants from crossing list. Lets get real about this of the of drowning migrants in the river, which is exactly what happened on to the subject and your kids. But hes also proposed a lot of other anti immigrant measures in texas. And he pushed through a loss through the Texas Legislature that makes being on documented itself a state crime. Im now under federal law being and documented is a violation of immigration status, but its not a federal crime. In fact, when the congress was attempted to do that, back in 2006, there were immigrant marches in, in the United States been involved literally 2000000 people to i was there, you know, in los angeles or where they had to march is each with a 1000000 people are that was able to stop that effort on the federal level, but on map it is push this through on the state level army, he propose building more border walls and reading barriers asylum. Forcing the firing of millions of on documented workers whats called the verify system. And i think the worst one is permitting children to be held in Detention Centers with their parents. And its not just passing laws, you know, texas residence has just recently tried to shut down the Reception Center that tries to help migrants once they do come into the us and go through the processing by. Im Us Immigration authorities, thats a Catholic Church itself ran in el paso, for the last 27 years. And texas is now trying to shut down the by new ministration one as you just know that those core decisions versus texas on the border. But joe biden has not been very much more supportive of migrants than donald trump was. Hes nicer about it. Hes less controversial about it. Why are the democrats not fighting for the rights of immigrants like the Democratic Party of the past . Did . Why are they mirroring republicans in so many ways as well . A big part of the Democratic Party has bought into the basic idea that underlies a lot of these repressive measures. And that is that on immigrants, a migraines crossing the border are a threat. They treat them like an enemy, the whole idea of in sports, and that is to keep people out. After all, this is why the center and her kids drowned in the river was that the whole basis of the policy there is to stop people from coming because they are a threat. And they are, the enemy is kind of like even a militarized idea of who migrants are. And you know, were talking about People Data Center who is from mexico. So you, we dont know that much about her, but right. But the people who are arriving at the border are our workers, theyre farmers, theyre ordinary people like you and i. So what makes them a threat . This is kind of what underlies it. And then of course, you know, theres this miscalculation, i think, on the part of part of the democratic board including bite and the set, the things that anti immigrant ideas and hysteria is a wildly popular idea among people and in this country. And that they can win the election by competing with republicans in who can be seen as the most stamped. I am regret, david, stay right there. Were going to take a short break. And when we come back, were going to talk to david thinking about what realistically can be done to protect the human rights, civil rights and dignity of those people trying to make their way to the United States in an environment of hostility and of dirty politics. Stay to the. 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 its, its almost like almost a cliche in the west, but this whole idea of, of my, to the last you brainy and theres some truth behind it. I mean, think about it for the american, the 60000000000. 00 for the reason. A package, not a lot of money. A lot of money stays within the United States in terms of the defense contracts and the like and pulled up money that, you know, they buy time, they prolonged the wall to keep rush of busy. You know, this is the, ultimately, this, the, what the west is doing is on a file, you know, trying to preserve west to the hague again, many the what they, thats it letting you think he said that then you can put in the name. So facade, indeed, let me put that in my head that he would do it assuming that the to look into intermedia. Nikoto is the dimensions of the scene. Send the most of the to the the motion of the the welcome back to the whistle, blowers. Im john to reaku. Were speaking with david bacon, hes a photo journalist, fine arts photographer, author, Union Organizer and artist. Thanks again for being with us, david. Its a pleasure. Its a pleasure, john. Thank you for inviting me. Thank you, david. I want to return to the very powerful piece that you wrote as part of a presentation with which i opened the show. It harkens back to that epic song deportees by woody guthrie. What do you got . 3, saying about a plain load of migrants who were being deported to mexico when their plane exploded over los gatos, california. He lamented that they wouldnt be known by their names, but only as deportees. The bottom line here is that so Many Americans see undocumented refugees as somehow less than human. And indeed, donald trump has said that they were animals and that they were less than human. Tell us about this family that was lost in the rio grande and about the challenges that my friends face on their way to the United States as well. You know, to, on actually, on the, the people in what do you, guthrie saw or who died in that plane crash. The reason why you called them deportees was because there was no record that was captive their names and were talking here about the late 1940. This is not something is and recently a very um, uh brave. And as pioneering activist went through the records of the parishes in the Central Valley in california where people were buried. Ads found their names and went to mexico and their families. And kind of a did this and the name of the that in which people were treated in sandwich customer. He was testing in his song. So, you know, its both. I think both things exist in our country here above the effort to serve the human eye as mike rest and treat them as people with no name or as you said, you know, to install. So calling people animals or killers or, or what a terrace or what have you. This is. Busy the weight of, of car do you know i see people and seeing them is as not human, but i think its also true. So we have at the same time, people who are very courageously trying to not just keep track of the humidity of migrants, but to talk to them individually and deal with their cases individually and advocate for them individually. So right, going in terms of the of the sancha and her 2 kids home when we really know about her is, is that she was a poor person from mexico city. And the we have had a wave of migration from mexico for many, many years, at least for, for 5 decades. And over whelming leads of people who are coming to the border, are people or workers. They are farmers. And whats even more important is that in many cases, they are also victims of the policies that the us has. I apply way would be to say, encouraged in mexico, but i wouldnt really want to say imposed on mexico. Its a free trade policies that basically have tried to force the Mexican Government to, to use unemployment and poverty as a way of forcing down the standard of living of people in mexico to make it an attractive place for us corporations who invest. Right. But the price of doing that is that you make it so difficult for people to survive, that in order to get them to put food on the table or pay the rent, or what have you. People lead to the us to look for work. And that is what we do know about data such in her kids. And that is that she was doing something she needed to do in order to survive as a person. And thats the reason why the survival has become so difficult is decades and decades of these kinds of free trade policies. You know, the free trade agreements and using poverty is as a, as both a magnet for investment. But on the other hand, as something that displaces people and forces them to move, i want to ask you also what i think is an important question. It may be a controversial one, but here goes, why do we, why do americans not understand that it is us Foreign Policy that creates these immigration crises, imposing, for example, right wing dictatorships on tiny Central American countries or wrecking hades, economy or imposing crippling sanctions on cuba and venezuela, why do we not understand that . Thats what forces people to leave their countries. Why is it that so Many Americans just cant see the connection between immigration and u. S. Foreign policy . Well, i think we have to look at where people in this country get their information from and overwhelming leads of mass media in this country plays a very, very bad role here. And data you would, you mention is a good example of that. Right now the us is gearing up for um, basically military intervention in haiti. Once again, yes, im using other countries as, as proxies. But essentially the us is paying for this and us as a what this pushing this idea that he must be occupied militarily. Again, im using as a pretext is supposedly the file level of violence and 80 is so great that in order to protect patients, that this is what has to happen. This is a completely false idea of what is happening and he, he has been suffering from a basically us imposed series of governments whose main purpose is to make a, the, again, a profitable place for us investors, the garment factories, the ones that make the baseball gloves the wilson, baseball gloves, all of these are our, our hub. This is kind of what motivates us policy as well as kind of trying to keep a control political control over countries in, in the caribbean. And so this was why on the us put, jump that runs out of state who was really the only popularly elected progressive president that he has had yeah. Offer in so much very subjective. And us put him on a plane to the Central African republic. Um, in order to remove them as president in order to keep the situation intact. And of course, what this really means is that again, you are governments that impose these poverty conditions. One haitians and when worth weight comes, you know, they collect the money from your foundations or whatever and put it in their pocket instead of helping patients. And so, of course, asians are in the need of survival just like people coming from mexico or people coming from venezuela where us economic sanctions have had the same effects of us as is imposing the conditions that produce the migration. And then when people cross the border, treating them as though they are the enemy. Yeah. So they are criminals in some way. There are state laws in places like texas in arizona that prohibit people from providing food, water, clothing, shelter for any help at all, to people who cross the border without a visa or those laws being enforced. And is there any real way to oppose them as well . There is a long history of the Us Government or federal government as well as state governments like texas trying to enforce those pro additions on. But i think that one of the best things that we can see now is that people are doing this any way. You know, again, this is an old all the months or area council which w