Cross talking ukraine, im joined by my guess over desires in geneva. He is an author and former un independent expert on International Order in brussels. We turn to appear emmanuel tom on. He is a lecture at Leon University and in niece we crossed to alex become well rich. He is a veteran reporter and Foreign Affairs analyst. A gentleman comstock rose in effect. That means you can jump any time you want, and i would appreciate it. I would somebody go to you 1st and nice because youre in france so nice. So i started out with the french president here, it says hes advocating a form of strategic ambiguity. And then he says under the conditions in which he will send troops, his troops, they told troop somebodys troops, i dont know. And those conditions, are it kids lines break, or they a request is made, prized zalinski. So it, i dont see that is m b a and beauty. I find it confusing and certainly very dangerous. Go ahead alex find to do anything. Right . Its one of 2 things. Either you dont know what youre talking totally free because you see like its, its, its that simple. Going all along the lines of him saying hes going to send troops and if libraries or if you create, makes a request. Well, i think you create would have already made that requested that i had a chance to make a request. These, these are you applying the sky ideas . And i felt like little napoleon here hes, hes pushing out all these ideas to, to need while made it was really not been bathroom on it. You talk any st politician. Nobody wants to go in. So you create official. Now the other side of that coin is, we know that since 2014 and couldnt use the americans, the french, the british, everybody stayed on the ground in ukraine, nevada officially. So what does this make of what the versus the state will make a big difference actually when youre looking at the bit with maddox, your face, when you say youre basically on the ground. Well uh that takes things up a level and thats what people are sick and tired. We need to stop this type of rhetoric. We should be pulling back. We know what the situation is on the ground. Wines have been broken time and time again because you created a body off their backing off, their line is being broken very quickly and solely in the past few months. So why would background say this pastor, i mean you have germany, which is the economic engine of europe. And then you have france, which is the most hardcore military, lets say the troops or existence or the military gear in europe. They, they, armstrong, we know that about france, but that does not mean that you should be rivaling that sort as much as i get rambling it. I hope that the president , she told him a thing or 2 about how to actually run these days because i used to sometimes have the adults in the room and we know when back from that with him we all looked like the adult in the room. So lets pull back, lets stop playing these uh, you know, slow your games with one another. Lets get some solution. Yeah, i agree. I offered, you know, the but if you look at the, the, the predicate of the crown statements and hes got his all over the place. He actually was very conciliatory in the beginning of all of this. Now he just wants to be the pocket nato. Um, but you know, itd be the, the way the conditions that he said they know if the lines break and the silence he makes the call. Doesnt that tell you that the ukraine is losing and maybe they should try a different strategy, alfred. Or obviously your plan is losing and they know what theyre putting themselves on under pressure. And this makes me think of another french napoleon i fully understood who did not stop provoking the impressions and his arrogance. Uh, watched them eventually, doctors a face to declare war on process which he lost in 6 months now. Um, we dont ones that we have no clear states that can destroy not only themselves but the rest of humanity. So you need to break that gridlock, you would need to break the pretends. You need to accept the fact that the whether we would like it or not, we live on only one land and uh, as we cannot afford to continue with escalation. What is not only mat crohn whose mad on it is joe biden, and anthony blankets and all of shots and his board minister and recei. Uh, so like this for minutes or um uh, david camera on there. Oh. Using very belligerent rhetoric. Well, i mean, okay, now, now that you brought up a camera on, ill go to appear menu. Well, i mean, he, very, um, uh, loosely said, you know, that, you, you, craig can use whatever british weapons they want hand wherever they want, even against russia, russia proper. And then the, the, the, the response to that is that the russians are saying, well, they will respond to any use of weapons that use against rush are used by the ukrainians. If its use in ukraine or even beyond ukraine. Now that is getting Serious Business here. Go ahead peer emanuel. Yes. You look side and not chief of for our western states and the re friend so. So trying to take the lead, know of the and not cheap for underlying got or you create a new will be the winnings along. Russia should lewisville war. And this is not operating on the grounds. So regarding the Public Opinion or in the very relies, there being a to tell the music interpreting re, so crises from the beginning paper nobodys, they understand more but, or is not to less fate. And the imaging mccord like overall wisdom the just been dont know what to do more to, to steal up your ice cream or andrew, are the wave of filed is to increase or the, your ok should not chief like cook reaching troops on the wrong, the beating the size or hitching your territory of russia, or vote from the french, fun of you, your good or so these are in town or the debate in france, wed be a nixtons said you have been part of an approaching wherever to put a stick are thought to be money when michael is very, is going to lose the butter because or how somebody on the bonus ronada these main or position be so we still, but theyre not on the thing look than, oh is no but dollar dollars votes expected from the bought to you have made money going back home, so the money and my car would like to reinforce of these narrative of being very strongly international. They dont have very many. Well, let me ask the question, i do young uh french soldiers want to go fight in ukraine. Apparently theyre already there, so im a, i mean i, it would be the, the, the general staff of france will allow them across to make that decision. I mean, or even the people make a decision here that the same this the spikes, the mistakes are so high for someone pastoring. Yes, thats right. Of each denture was because or it looks like youre vis. Narrative is increasing and the rising mistakes on the in v and we dont know because to look pretty boiler or imaging about home my to be your feel obliged to do something to do it tuesday and really troops officially we dont know. But or many general are seen for us expos, safety issues. Procedure would be a disaster because for us as not well come up with each with strategy come big, you t, you need the your immediate or recovery beatitude behind on for us as is not ready for i entered city wall. This is why it is so denture was renewal, but to be honest with you, some instruct jobs on the grounds and of it tried to hide this fact. And the question is, would it become Office Charge with troops on the ground . And the, even though weve been minimum reverse of troops, right, each would be a disaster and must a french deeper does that really bucks you main party card parties of position does that . Wed be but, but it would be snarled tv student going on. So i think on to the end of for your pen, it extra is made maybe well, i mean, you know, if it, let me go to alex back and nice. It was pretty pathetic if youre doing this kind of calculation based on europe and elections that the stakes are much higher then these elections coming up here. You know, the problem alex here is that the chrome keeps saying russia we should not be allowed to win. Is that a strategy . What about ukraine . Go ahead. No. I mean, thats a big question and i what are the say the rest of wants to take over . All of you create that has never been the, the, the idea. If anything, the 1st move is a key was to do the exact same thing that the americans did announce the cool government. And basically put somebody, the charts with a little bit more common sense of the people that are running the show at the time. For russia to take over ukraine, again, that thats not a Strategic Value to reference goals of all the to the that theyre holding the land, the russian speakers with their that lost their rights to speak. Their language ross bought their right to teach their, their kids, russian. What their rights to how theyre signed up in russian. I mean, these are, these are things that we see. You have been around the world when you are either ethnic cleansing or youre pushing people out of an area. So of what roger did was defending is people of people that could identify themselves as russian does rush. I have an a, a, basically some sort of idea of going to the very end of your credit of inquiry about missiles pointing out at your russian missiles. Dont have to go off of the border of the youtube to hit their targets. Just like western missiles dont have to go up to the board or russia, but for some reason, they thought it would be a good idea to expand a needle ukraine, which is the biggest level of land next to russia all the way up to the board. And we all know, i think we all know that were sitting here and the people that are watching this. We know how this started. We know that there were negotiations on the table that this never had to happen. And they all came from the west. The us and france and in the have, you know, people have been talking more forever. I was with the you out of see all of this is the 1990 this month. Thats the bottom line. We have special interest groups, the United States and beyond that are making a lot of cash for the best. And at the same time, a lot of people are dying and they dont have to send americans in when they can use you could use as content bought or in those port civilians are going through. This are absolutely no reason this cant stop. Well, alex, so they can say to you, before i say with you before we go to the break here, what happens if french troops start dying . What is the crowd going to do then . What they say that the french mercenaries of what a well the power in leaf and they say is already there. They say the forwarding legions already there. The form is ever again, j. C, up to the canadian aspects of horses or wherever they are in 2014 and im sure theyre, theyre there to, to some degree right now just like probably alrighty. Im still going to have to jump in here. Were going to go to a hard break them down to that hard break, will continue our discussion that you can stay with our team, the russian states. Never as ive started as im sort of the most sense Community Best of all sense and the in the system must be the one else calls question about this, even though we will fan in the european union, the kremlin media mission, the state on the russians putting s. R t sports net keeping our video agency roughly all the band on youtube tv services. For what question did you say you requested the loan in vietnam or to the vietnam war . Lost it for almost 2 decades and dragged in numerous countries. Nor does he have written down that you dont see it. Now. What is all im empty. Hundreds of thousands of american troops who was sent to the country to back the south vietnamese on me. I you both are not meant to supply the american soldiers militant resistors, most loosely burned down entire villages and spread dangerous chemicals. And even lee by all right, did the americans ever fully acknowledge what they did on the vietnamese veterans ready to forgive . Yes, yes, and thats the way its too late to but yeah, the welcome back to the prospect. Were all Things Considered . Im Peter Roosevelt remind you were discussing you create the okay, lets go back to l for it in geneva, which is for every action there is an equal reaction in the reaction build this loose rhetoric that we have heard of, particularly over the last few new cycles or rush has decided to a start exercise is a, a new killer drills for the gum duper as a precaution because of the very provocative language coming out of western capitals irresponsible language. I would say, i think we would all agree, but say there is a reaction and this is an escalation. Dont western leaders understand that this is a reaction to their loose rhetoric . Alfred. Uh, no, they do not want to understand. I mean, they live in their power. Loan world are parallel reality. Uh and the probably the masses are subject to re length last spring washer. I mean, and its not only new york times, washington post, and then right, well down defined its, i dont even hear in switzerland. You re nonsense in the know i have to over to the title and organizations like mine. Im in the de la International Peace research institute, the get rate, we have pulled out a blueprint for peace and ukraine. We have sent it to the all ca for the whole in birth. And of course, you know that we in switzerland. Im also interested in we are going to have uh in may and do this. Um, so called peace conference of the builder and stuck on lakeland south. Now they are going to be a lot of blueprints for piece. The 10 point plan of uh, sure landscape is delusional. Absolutely. Uh, disconnected, uh, from reality. But, uh, the truck point point uh, plan of the chinese is good. The 10 point blind, all the africans is good. Uh, the International Progress organization has put up a very good plan. Also told frances had put out a plan. So there are ideas out there. And my hope is that if enough states participate, obviously russia is not going to participate. Thats clear. But uh, if uh say the presence of china and india and south africa and brazil and mexico etc might lead the conference to this car. The 10 point applying of isolated scale is totally unrealistic. I start to talk more possibilities of a compromise. Well, it is. Its interesting now for the, you mentioned a member of the countries around the world, the energy individual, the pope, in organizations that have a blueprint to start the process of ending this complex here. Im going to go to appear menu. All right now, um, but no western leader does that. No western lead, no one in nato. Does that. And putting into nelson. Right. Hang on. Perfect, hang on, hang on pollutants and now you ration, he said russia remains open to dialogue and its up to the other side to decide how to move forward. Appearing menu. Well, i mean, where is the, the, the piece plan from the biden. People from cameron from sergeant schultz, where is it . They never use that language of, of ending this conflict and maintaining security for all players. They never talk about language. Go ahead in brussels. Yeah, so unfortunately for, ive seen it in europe and a member of state. So natal, on, not through the silver ring anymore, and resp or are they your, i think they, the she, the more are y e r g 2 up to your us or why you are to be you attempt to exist a bunch with a run ca, wed be nate to bunch with any independent votes, and this is like your, the, your pants are competing to be the best artist of washington. And are trying to also at the same time to see, to the vacuum in case of for the trunk will be elected because they seem to the United States with the less um, less itd be present in europe in office. But thats a sick time of a your, the photo, the main job or the car objectives of, of washington. And its likely they want to find a nice in vis or, or it is, hey, monique, of washington in europe and to, to found vale own leadership weaving, vis seems to me to the west on the dominus, weve out, to try to find any, your end of this conflict because were menu, well i, i dont want to, i dont want to be too insulting here, but is there any leadership in europe at all . I mean, you know, you see this from a crown. He is, hes is channeling his entered the gall. He cant find it. Cameron is no churchill. I mean, where is leadership in europe . I mean, theyre all replaced. Well, you could take the Prime Minister from finland and put them in italy. It wouldnt, no one would notice. Go ahead go. Or exactly. It would be closer, the better to kind of class is, are afraid, very, your low quality to be frank. Those seems the departure of the board and for us on more more youve been seeing prison on the front. Small more lines on the i would say are under sex on the water, we vote to the independent voice and are image even more. Oh sure. Doesnt the experience of the read crises of low for shock. She and i was there last president with experience in war, and are they even they dont understand this new merchant put on war because they come from in the ideal g. Carter butler, a francis should do. It takes the lead vis europe and the project. But the e u is dependent on a tool and west of the maintenance under the can be done on the stand up to position them serve in this new emergency put on work emerging, were actually due is losing power on the left side only in our growth cvt quote, we think will be the speaking of the young, aggressive out the way we have the polish official them wanting to host the American Nuclear missiles on their soil. I mean, what country in the world as we know, we want, we want to be a target for in a nuclear war. I, i just, i cant understand that whatsoever. Why would you want to do that unless you want to just curry favor . You want to, you want it . Youre giving a nod to washington. You. Where are you . Where are you guys in europe to get differential get the germans. Poland will stand with you. I mean, this is insanity red and the russians are not going to react to it. Really go ahead and why dont we need to talk, suppose people, instead of the post politicians, which are almost obviously, but i dont think he is. He talked to anybody thats as low as 80, were here a year of a, theyre both. Oh, youre very different story about their feelings to whats happening in ukraine. Theyre, theyre still in some sense in the he, you added your but if you look at the end of the line, theyre looking at the hungary, if youre looking to increase and you listen to some of their politicians. These are people that have seen it, especially the crisis i get outside of the utah the serve use you know, theres, theres this whole. Ready mythology, that serbia somehow attached to, to rush to like it by them delafield court. Its, its not there. Theres people that are pro and anti rush and serbia as well as increases. But these are countries that see war, they know what its about, that theyre politicians that are now leading. Ready stations know exactly what happens and th