January 14th, vic derma della sanchez said us a 33 year old mother from mexico city, stepped into the rio grande, holding the hands of her 2 children. You are lie, ruby h 10, and jonathan augustine, very honest, the sunshine 8. We dont know how they got into trouble in the strong current, or if they even knew how to swim, group of bait, mexicos border rescue service, saw them struggling and called the us border patrol. Agents went to the park gate a couple of miles from the boat ramp. Soldiers of the Texas Military department refused to let them through. Mexican authorities tried to rescue the mom and her children. They were able to save 2 others, but the 3 drowned and group of beta could only return to mexico with their bodies. Later, the Texas MilitaryDepartment Said that its soldiers standing behind a chain link fence had shown high powered lights on the water and use their night vision goggles, but somehow had seen nothing. The white house called the event tragic and used it as evidence to support its case before the us supreme court. Challenging texas is assertion that it is entitled to a wrecked razor wire board or barriers and use its own soldiers to stop migraines from crossing the river. The texas governors policies are cool, dangerous and inhumane said a d h. S spokesperson . Congressman Joaquin Castro added this, he said quote, texas officials allowed 2 children to drown and quote, it within days. President joe biden said in a statement, if Congress Passed the bill to continue funding warren ukraine and genocide in gaza, he would agree to and t migrant provisions that are part of the reason the less sancha and her Children Ground a quote, i will shut down the border immediately, the president promised id like to welcome david back into the show. Hes a photo journalist, a fine art photographer, author, and Union Organizer, and hes also inactive as his work can be seen in museums and galleries around the world. Welcome david. Thank you so much for joining us on the big admirer of yours, john. Thank you for having me. Oh, thank you. Believe me, the feeling is absolutely mutual. David, i want to begin by admitting to my own bias. I am the grandson of refugees. Many members of my family came to the United States as what are sometimes now called illegal aliens. All they wanted to do was to work, pay taxes and help their poor relatives in the old country. They learned how to speak english, they worked hard. They waited for an amnesty and then they got their citizenship, their children, and their childrens children, including me, have become very successful if the american dream. And frankly, the country simply cannot run without immigrants, whether theyre documented or not documented. So why the hostility toward people who happen to not have a visa, why the anger, the hatred, and the unrelenting work to throw these people out of the country as well. We hear a lot from trump and his mug acolytes. I think we ought to really step back in and, and ask ourselves really who is angry here . Because i think really the majority of people in this country are not hostile and dont hate immigrants. In fact, when republicans tried to run one repressive measures around immigration as their main political blank, so to speak, they lose selections. Um, but i think its also true what youre saying because there is a long history of racism in this country. You know, the ku klux klan was organized against black people, but also against immigrants, against catholics and jews, guest mexicans. And the last reason i think why this continues to be a problem is, is basically that keeping him progress, vulnerable and documented, for instance, is profitable. Look at the profit, so the agriculture industry, which is built on and documented those labor, thats right. And on thats makes, it gives some people at least a self interest in trying to keep things but where they are. And so making that kind of racial and the time were going to stare him when i see old news clips or even clips from old president ial debates, where people like richard nixon, Ronald Reagan, even george h. W. Bush are talking about undocumented immigrants. Their positions are full of compassion. None of these men, all of whom consider themselves to be conservative. Republicans could today survive in the, in the Republican Party. Many of them would be seen as to pro immigrant even to be democrats. When do you think things changed in the us toward, toward migrants, at least this, this harden shift to the right. And why did the National Attitude swing so far in the anti immigrant direction . At least among conservatives to well, the Republican Party is not the same party as it was in the presidency of Ronald Reagan writes, proud reagan almost been extremely conservative, anti communist president. But he did sign the Immigration Reform control act in 1986, which was the last that gave immigration amnesty to about 2 and a half 1000000 people. Now it also had some repressive aspects to it. It sort of initiated the whole process of notarizing the border for instance. And so even then, um it was sort of a, a compromise. Right . But the Republican Party is that exist under donald trump is not interested in a compromise of any kind that would offer a legal status. For instance, the people who dont have it. Democrats, you know, they really have not oppose this in a way theyre running scared on, you know, when biting proposes compromise that you referred to earlier. And i think is main reason for doing that was to try to kind of blunt the attack of, of drugs and extreme um, republicans on that said the brightness soft of migration. So instead of really providing a real principle, the fierce defense of the rights of migrants and the rights of working people. In general, what he did was he said, well, im gonna, ill do you, me, you, im going to close now the border. And thats not something that kind of stops the republicans in their tracks. If anything, it give some even more momentum. Id say, david, tell us about these actions by the governor of texas, greg abbotts to you serve some of the federal Governments Authority to control border access. Just policies had been ruled unconstitutional, but he just keeps added any way. What should we expect to see there . As well, you know, some of his policies that he say are put on hold. These appealed the ruling that said that it was unconstitutional for him, for us to put on razor wire barriers in the middle of the rio grande river. As a way of preventing mike. Well, yeah, he says preventing migrants from crossing list. Lets get real about this of the of drowning migrants in the river, which is exactly what happened on to the center of your kids. But hes also proposed a lot of other anti immigrant measures in texas, and he pushed through a loss through the Texas Legislature that makes being on documented itself a state cry on now under federal law, being and documented is a violation of immigration status, but its not a federal crime, in fact, when the congress was attempted to do that, back in 2006, there were immigrant marches in, in the United States been involved literally 2000000 people to i was there, you know, in los angeles or where they had to march is each with a 1000000 people are that was able to stop that effort on the federal level, but on map it is push this through on the state level. Um he propose building more border walls and reading barriers asylum um, forcing the firing of millions of and documented workers to whats called the verify system. And i think the worst one is permitting children to be held in Detention Centers with their parents. And its not just passing laws, you know, texas residence has just recently tried to shut down the Reception Center that tries to help migrants once they do come into the us and go through the processing by. Im Us Immigration authorities, thats a Catholic Church itself ran in el paso, for the last 27 years. And texas is now trying to shut that down the by new ministration. One as you just know that those core decisions versus texas on the border. But joe biden has not been very much more supportive of migrants than donald trump was. Hes nicer about it. Hes less controversial about it. Why are the democrats not fighting for the rights of immigrants like the Democratic Party of the past . Did . Why are they mirroring republicans in so many ways as well . A big part of the Democratic Party has bought into the basic idea that underlies a lot of these repressive measures. And that is that on immigrants, a migraines crossing the border are a threat. They treat them like an enemy, the whole idea of in sports, and that is to keep people out after all, this is why the center and her kids drowned in the river was that the whole basis of the policy there is to stop people from coming because they are a threat and they are, the enemy is kind of like even a militarized idea of who migrants are. And you know, were talking about People Data Center who is from mexico. So you, we dont know that much about her, but right. But the people who are arriving at the border are our workers, theyre farmers, theyre ordinary people like you and i. So what makes them a threat . This is kind of what underlies it. And then of course, you know, theres this miscalculation, i think, on the part of part of the democratic board including button. This said the things that anti immigrant ideas and hysteria is a wildly popular idea among people and in this country. And that they can, within an election by competing with republicans in who can be seen as the most stamped. I am regret, david, stay right there. Were going to take a short break. And when we come back, were going to talk to david thinking about what realistically can be done to protect the human rights, civil rights and dignity of those people trying to make their way to the United States in an environment of hostility and of dirty politics. Stay to the. 2 2 1 year and do the to attempt to become an extra a month. I see its not there for the show event. It will be a job to bluff because of a does uh, international stuff is defense. I see the supplement is setup button and not the printer and i thought someone did you lose . It asked me like that. If i said the media, i love you focused on you to reason to do say with the city, the new country tempe. Each of us going to be presented as for the money im going to work it on stimulus the industry is itll, whats money . Proof of concept really left. So should william farmer shots might give us who we have Contract Store to go and what decision did my lab and what was that man . It was the ones that ridiculous funds. I put it in the midst of them one today and, but you also also put in additional to set im showing the total suspect patient can was im patient did it for shes kimballs, im best do what i mean theres a copper based upon the, the, what is part of the is it that the employee would post that isnt the the place you was input in the word or is it something deeper, more complex . Might the present good. Lets stop without cases. Lets go out of of the, in 1492, this evening, Christopher Columbus reached the bahamas and discovers the new world for europe. The wealth of america and its fast territories. Cosby envy of the europeans, especially the spaniards and the portuguese. They sought, after taking over these lands. However, there lived Indigenous Peoples with a high culture and their own nation, who is there, the barbaric colonization of america, which went down in history under the name of con, diesel. That lasted for more than 100 years seen 1521 care design. Cortez is kind of due to the doors captured and destroyed the capital of the aztec empire. Daniels practically massacring the local population. Following them, Francisco Pizarro is gun case. The doors destroyed the inca empire as a result of spanish aggression. The ancient maya civilization collapse, suppressing the resistance of the indians. The invaders carried out mass executions. The horrendous genocide was aggravated by the diseases that the europeans had brought to america. The number of the indigenous population decreased at 16 times from 25. So one and a half 1000000 people from keystone became one of the largest demographic disaster fees of mankind and remains an indelible bloody stains in the history of the european colonial empires. The welcome back to the whistle blowers. Im drunk to reaku. Were speaking with david bacon. Hes a photo journalist, fine arts photographer, author, Union Organizer and artist. Thanks again for being with us. David. Its a pleasure. Its a pleasure, john. Thank you for inviting me. Thank you. David, i want to return to the very powerful piece that you wrote as part of a presentation with which i opened the show. It harkens back to that epic song deportees by Woody Guthrie, Woody Guthrie saying about a plain load of migrants who were being deported to mexico when their plane exploded over los gatos, california. He lamented that they wouldnt be known by their names, but only as deportees. The bottom line here is that so Many Americans see undocumented refugees as somehow less than human. And indeed, donald trump has said that they were animals and that they were less than human. Tell us about this family that was lost in the rio grande and about the challenges that my friends face on their way to the United States as well. You know, john actually on the the people and what do you, guthrie saw who died in that plane crash. The reason why he calls them deportees was because there was no record that was captive their names and were talking here about the late 1940. This is not something is add on recently a very, um, uh, brave and pioneering activist went through the records of the parishes in the Central Valley in california where people were buried. Ads found their names and went to mexico and found their families and kind of and did this anonymity that in which people were treated in sandwich customer. He was old testing in his song. So, you know, its both. I see both things exist in our country here, but the effort to serve the human eyes, migrants, and treat them as people with no name or as you said, you know, so insulted calling people animals or killers or, or what a terrace, or what have you. This is. Busy the weight of, of car do you nice you people and seeing them, its as not human, but i think its also true. So we have at the same time, people who are very courageously trying to not just keep track of the humidity of migrants, but to talk to them individually and deal with their cases individually. Advocate for them individually. So right, going in terms of the, of the santa and her 2 kids. What we really know about her is, is that she was a poor person from mexico city. And the we have had a wave of migration from mexico for many, many years, at least for, for 5 decades. And overwhelming leads of people who are coming to the border are people or workers. They are farmers. And whats even more important is that in many cases they are also victims. Busy of the policies that the us has, i apply way would be to say, encouraged in mexico, but i would really want to say imposed on mexico. Its a free trade policies that basically have tried to force the Mexican Government to, to use unemployment and poverty as a way of forcing down the standard of living people in mexico to make it an attractive place for us corporations when best. Right. But the price of doing that is that you make it so difficult for people to survive, that in order to eat and put food on the table, or pay the rent, or what have you. People lead to the us to look for work. And that is what we do know about data such in her kids. And that is that she was doing something she needed to do in order to survive as a person. And thats the reason why the survival has become so difficult is decades and decades of these kinds of free trade policies. You know, the free trade agreements and using poverty as, as a, as both a magnet for investment. But on the other hand, i something that displaces people and force them to move. I want to ask you also what i think is an important question. It may be a controversial one, but here goes, why do we, why do americans not understand that it is us Foreign Policy that creates these immigration crises, imposing, for example, right wing dictatorships on tiny Central American countries or wrecking hades, economy or imposing crippling sanctions on cuba and venezuela, why do we not understand that . Thats what forces people to leave their countries. Why is it that so Many Americans just cant see the connection between immigration and u. S. Foreign policy . Well, i think we have to look at where people in this country get their information from and overwhelming leads of mass media in this country plays a very, very bad role here. And he would you mention is a good example of that right now. The us is gearing up for um, basically military intervention and he wants to, yes, im using other countries as, as proxies. But essentially the us is paying for this and us as a what this pushing this idea that he must be occupied militarily again. Um, using as a pretext is supposedly the final level of violence in 80 is so great that in order to protect patients, that this is what has to happen. This is a completely false idea of what is happening in haiti. He has been suffering from a basic, says us imposed series of governments whose main purpose is to make a, again, a profitable place for us investors, the garment factories, the ones that make the baseball gloves, the wilson, baseball glov