Offset the deficiency to makeup for that deficiency, any kind of enhancement is it an alternative design, is it an alternative means or method, and if were confident of that, we move forward. One other thing id like to make, we talked a lot we mentioned a couple times about our fire safety sheet, our bulletins, etcetera, and we standby them. I personally signed that that bulletin and the fire safety sheet does not address exiting, does not address fire safety windows. It addressed sprinkleers. It does not waive requirements for stand pipes, does not waive requirements for exiting. So i think theres a misunderstanding that someone reads that document and take its too far, that reads Something Else in that its not. So i think i technically appreciate your trying to get me there. I mean, where my concern is obviously, were going to have 600 of these coming at you. Yes. So im asking the question, and lets just talk a little bit about the preapp. Yeah. Maybe thats where were at. In your experience, is it all the sf05 and the g23, so theyre the first round of applicants, applications to come in. You sit down with the fire, everybody sits there, and they tick those boxes, right . Correct. That document, is that document good enough to pretty much look that project in the eye and say okay, if you dont change anything, and you present what you have presented here, and what the information you told us today, well stand behind that decision, and you can go forward to all the next you know, go ahead with your design team, go ahead everything with that . It answers the question, how far to what extent do i sprinkleer the building. Im changing the use from r3 to r2. Do i springler the whole building . It answers those type of questions. It does not answer questions on egress and other life safety provisions in the code. So so yes and no. It gets you halfway there. You still you still have require other oth other requirements to meet for code. I think were talking about the same issues here, the exiting and so on, the fireproofing of those corridors and so forth. Is there anything that could be done as a part of that check list that could get us there before we go down that rabbit hole. Thats a difficult one to answer because every the adus that ive looked at personally that come up to my level, theyre all different. I cannot produce a document thats going to cover the four or five that ive looked at. Theyre all unique in themselves and different challenges, depending on the configuration of the building and where its located, etcetera. Again, our goid uide is whats the code, and if were going to did he have yat from that, there is an open equivalency. If you had a preapp meeting it, you would say heres our site plan, my Fire Department access and myegress. At that point, on just a site plan, we could look at that and say okay, give your occupant load, given the number of units, given your building, you need a second exit, or we could talk about the options that you have. That would be the way you do it. So you would have fire, dbi, planning. It would be the big picture stuff. Whether its feasible to move forward with the project. That could be addressed at the preapp phase, the first yes. And fire would be comfortable enough saying if what im saying here, and if this doesnt deviate from what im seeing, based on what im seeing here, these would meet your fire requirements based on a, b, and c. So the way we do our detail, we agree on all the design element details on that project. We sign off on the preapp. Unless information wasnt presented to us that comes to our later, that changes everything, we standby that document. We do. Yeah. Okay. cause that that would be in anticipation of all these permits coming at you. I think eventually well be able to identify pretty much the kind of projects that arent going to work. Great. Great. And we could save ourselves a lot of emails later ongoing around, trying to put a square into a round hole, right . And just information for this group here, for this commission here, were already taking steps towards gathering a team that is dedicated towards these adus, where the process is consistent. We want to give a consistent message, and and consistent interpretation, so when we do make a decision, that whole group knows, and theres a path that follows. And that would be in the plan checking process. So thats in the plan checking process, agreed. Okay. And we are tracking adus separately independently where we didnt before. They were kind of thrown in a spreadsheet with everything else, so we understand this is kind of sensitive, and its difficult at times can be difficult. Thank you, fire marshal. Few more questions, if you dont mind. Sure. Commissioner lee, please. Im just wondering, does the city ever tell an applicant that the project is not feasible. Thats for the owner to decide that. We just we would just explain what are the code requirements as far as we see them. Heres the thing the Fire Department doesnt standup there and say you shall do a, y, and z. Our job is to enforce the code. Here is the code, and this is what it is. If the applicant disputes, that we welcome that. We do not have a problem with that at all. You put it in writing, you go up the chain. So with the understanding of that, the onus is now on the applicant, hey, is this feasible and worth moving forward . We dont get into the dollars of things. We just focus on what is required in the code. Questions . Yeah . Anymore. Thank you, fire marshal, for that. Thank you. Thank you. Is there any Public Comment on item eight . Mr. Boskovich, surprise, surprise. Pat boskovich. Im a San Francisco native. We called these Garden Apartments when i was growing up. I lived in the stone center apartments, and there were lots of world war ii Garden Apartments. They were a couple hundred feet, square feet, and i viewed these as critically important to the Housing Needs of the city. Were building lots of super rich housing. My kids cant afford the super rich housing. I cant afford that. We need to be building affordable units, and by the very nature, these Garden Apartments are affordable. If you can building a unit for about 100,000, thats amazing to build housing in existing housing. When we look at the seismic, though, seismic retrofit, were just not seismically retrofitting the ground floor, were upgrading the entire, and when you upgrade the exiting, youre upgrading the exiting to the entire building. [ please stand by ]. I view it as a winwin for everybody, and the adu pays for all this work, so the owners are, like, getting a building seismic, and theyre adding units. The tenants are safer, theyre more seismic upgrade, they are more fire resistant, but there are issues, and the exit is a big issue. Everyone talks about this preapp, but were missing one concept. Youve gt to ot to do a preapp every one of these, and its got to do a three group planning. Plannings got issues here. Building and fire does their preapp, and if theyre not talking, then the Fire Department is doing one thing and the Planning Department is saying Something Else. So my suggestion to the preapp is its a joint preapp on any intake permit that someone senior from planning, someone senior from building, someone senior from fire, they look at the drawings, they know if you can build it or not, and instead of going all the you way down, spending six months with planning, you get to building, you get to fire, and they say no, thats where the anger comes out. If certain buildings dont work out, then, you do this preapp with three departments, and they tell you what you can do. They give you the directions on exiting, and you move forward. And i think thats the solution to this is a mandatory preapp with planning in the room, with building, and fire. Thank you. Mr. Boskovich, if you may, we all were all sirnging out of the same choir book here. Were all trying to make this work, but as a professional youre a seasoned professional with this. You can look at a set of plans you can turn your phones off, too. I know. Thats what everybody else has to do. So they talk about the professionals not really guiding the process here and trying to, you know, go down that rabbit hole here, hoping that they might get a favorable decision, and unfortunately, whats happening is with we got staff getting blamed, weve got everybody going pointing different fingers, so i mean, you talked about the preapp meeting, and you say thats it. But if a homeowner has been told that they cant get exiting and so on, are you you know, thats and the fire is saying were telling you right here and now, we would not approve that project, even though you might feel, as somebody whos done this for a long time, that theyre incorrect with that decision, how do you advice Going Forward then . If Fire Department says no, its over. Theres no debate. You can go to the state fire marshal. Im very aware of it because i was on the commission. Thats not an issue. If a local says no, thats no, and thats having them right in the room ends up going down that path. I think having fire in this room, in this discussion and its generally not one to two units, its two to three. Once you cross the line from r3 to r2, it gets more complicated. And how would you advice yo advise your clients on the gas meters. Well, if you have a gas meter in the room, and theres nowhere else to put it, that ends the job. Now, there are certain types of equivalencies. If you have a huge back yard, maybe you can discuss that, but fund amountally exiting past a trades man, past the gas, when you dont have a refuge, i think it a nonstarter. Okay. Thank you. Thank you for your comments, sir. Do you have any additional yes. Just before you go, planning would like to say a few words. I would just like to add a comment about the combined application meetings. Planning department is supportive of combined application. Currently Planning Department offers a separate project review process and then applicants do go to a separate application meeting with building and fire . In our response to the mayor directive 1702, one of the items that we did outline was a combined preapplication meeting, so we are supportive of something of that nature for applications and adu permits. So because it involves im going to say three or four departments, who would coordinate that . Would wou wh who would be the front pirn. We being the dbi staff person whos coordinating we believe would be the more appropriate. Were open to whatever the best and most appropriate coordination for that type of meeting would be. Yeah. Were open to developing a process that would, you know, be the most efficient and Effective Customer service. I imagine it would be planning because that would be the initial outreach first, right . No, this would be a new process and have no customer facing information, so i think we could Work Together to develop whatever process would be most appropriate. Okay. I think thats something that we should consider, and im sure it would be i dont know how you would do this. Im sure there would be fees attached to this because preapp meeting cost whatever staff time and so on, and departments time and so on, and Fire Departments. Is this something thats done, administrator, to the different departments . Yeah. We can have something thats done through so many departments and planning. We could potentially investigate a process to have one fee submitted where the applicant could the fees could be, you know, bulk transferred between departments in. No, actually, when we have fire, we have a separate check, we give it to fire, they handle it, and then, we have db i, and we all feed into it. So you have three or four different checks, and everybody shows up. Yeah, and then, you can do the combination. But i want to remind commissioner mccarthy, preapplication is one good idea, but we should have a check list from each department to outline what are the requirements. I want to be make sure they you know, the public know because in the preapplication meeting, they need to specify the specific question. They cannot just say, is this permit or this application is code compliant. We cannot go through every item, look at the drawings, you know, half an hour, one hour. Each Department Needs to have a check list to what are the basic requirements. There are certain specific questions they can ask. Okay. So maybe what i think would be good, maybe if we just kind of itemize what those what really its going to take for this preapp meeting. Are you talking about the fire side . Are you talking about everybody . Yeah. Each department should have their own check list, and then we can give it to the public, publish it on the website. Here, the stack pipe business for some of the buildings and sprinkleer, you ask them to comply with the stand pipe requirement, thats a different thing, thats expensive. Depend on the situation. Thats why we need to spell out all those items. So im presuming everybody would be on board on this, trying to put that check list together, which is a precheck list before the preapp meeting, is that it . Yeah. And if it ticks if you have all that, then, you can have the meeting. Those are the minimum requirements in the Building Code because the dbi only enforce cbc. So why dont we do this why dont go ahead, commissioner gilman. So the preapp meeting, though, is still optional for applicants. Yeah. So im wondering if theres a way to avoid some of the issues that im so sorry, that the fire marshal thank you raised. Is there a way to incentivize it by maybe even saying that, you know, the various agencies would do a 10 reduction of fees to incentivize, almost make it mandatory for individuals to attend the preapp meetings. It seems like it would cut away all this red tape that they go down the staff with a project, that they know is not going to be feasible. Yeah, commissioner. First of you will all, we cann the fee but we can ask them to attend the project. Preapplication meeting is only on the specific question. We should have some basis to have a check list for the base requirement because we want to have those requirements first. For example, like Deputy Director mentioned, you cannot have minimum height, you cannot have less than 76 for the living room. How is the egress window, you know, you have sprinkleer for the ground floor, you dont need to have a separate exit one separate service exit, the program, you know, we go on. Deputy director, please. I know that youve been very involved through the director as sitting in on these are the Fire Department and so on, and planning. So, i mean, obviously, im presuming that the Design Professional would cover a lot of the check list, automatically knowing the code thats in place. Where were getting into trouble is of the 6 more hundred plus of coming at you, is there a certain population of those 600 will not will never meet the fire code or will never meet some other parts of our code, and im trying to figure out how do we identify those ones, so that we dont have this after a lot of money being spent and a lot of disappointed people at the end of the store. But im presuming the Design Professionals are not going to come in with a project its going to meet the design. Its those unforeseen conditions that we have, particularly having to do with exiting and life safety. Sometimes, we just have to face our demons here. Tlts ae things that dont meet the requirement and never will. How do we pull them out of that bunch. We have discussions with the fire and ourselves. Where theres two exits involves, theres plenty of issues. Where you commingle an exit is where you have an issue here. So im just trying to this preapp meeting, im just presuming a lot of the boxes would be ticked by the ziep professional. Its just those really hard questions when we get to the finish line, will this make it over the finish line, and we dont have to take less restrictive life safety issues into consideration, you know . So thats all were looking for is that would come out in that preapp meeting. We could go by the directors suggestion. We could make a small check list or a check list, as the obvious just so those questions are being asked at the preapp. So why dont we do this as a part of Due Diligence and Going Forward, trying to get to the bottom of this, maybe you could get with the different departments and come up with what would be most appropriate for these preapp meetings to kind of deal with that. We did have this conversation early on with planning, and with fire. Were going to try to put all of these agencies on it, but the time it takes for the preapp was a consideration here, too. Yeah, i know. But what im trying to avoid is the 05s and the g23s. When were at that stage, the project is not being approve zbld and Deputy Director l 0 wry, if we cant waive fees, is there something we can do shall i want to ask you, and fire, is there something we can do to incentivize individuals to do this. If i was a homeowner, i would want that, i would want that clarity, but not everybody thinks the way i do, so i want to ensure we get these folks into the preapp meeting to avoid what commissioner mccarthy is concerned about. We get Staff Meetings with these people, we waste tax dollars, and then we find theyre never going to be able to comply with fire code. So if it could be some sort of expedited service or flagging the file and they get some preferential service, but i would like, for our next meeting, to figure out how they would get into the preapp meeting. I think well have a coordination meeting with the groups, and coordinate with the fire marshal and see if its applicable. Okay. Thank you, deputy. Thank you. Thats acceptable, director . Yes. And then, i think we will go back and check. A month joert of them have preapplication before. We only respond to the specific question. Thats why we need to work on it to have the check list baseline, and then, they have question, we can ask. Okay. Thank you. Thank you for everybodys time on this. Thank you. Agenda item nine, discussion on the sale and permit of a project tracking system. Good morning, commissioners. Im sean bulin. I work with the department of technology, and were helping out on this project. We ar