Stefani that you called chief nance in here. And since chief nance is excited about telling me how to do my job, i have a question for you about yours. So first, chief nance, if i could ask you a few questions please, and thank you for being here. President yee supervisor walton . Supervisor walton through the chair. President yee thank you very much. Supervisor walton whats the likelihood of a juvenile ending up in Juvenile Hall or incarcerated . There are studies that exist, and i know there was a study referenced in the ordinance. To be clear, that study focused on 35,000 individuals in chicago, illinois, a city i know very well. 35,000 individuals, and the authors of that Study Indicate that in order to solidify the justification for using that study, other studies in other jurisdictions should be done. And therefore, no such study like that has been done in San Francisco. I can give you some presumptions about that. Supervisor walton since youre an expert a presumption is if a young person doesnt get their needs met, if theyre not in an environment where therapeutic programs are delivered, that their likelihood of recidivism is high, but just so you know, most young people are not detained in Juvenile Hall, and most young people on probation are successful. Supervisor walton correct, but we are talking about the ones that are detained, the ones who are locked up, the ones who have not been given opportunities to rehabilitation in custody, what is the likelihood of them being incarcerated in the future or we dont have that data right now. No such study has been conducted. Supervisor walton secondly, do we lock up foster kids who have nowhere else to go . Absolutely not. That is against the law to lock up foster youth who have no place else to go. Supervisor walton so what do we do with foster youth who have not committed an offense, what do we do with those young people . Those young people would be subject to the Child Welfare system as operated by the Human Services agency. Supervisor walton and if nobody takes them . The Child Welfare agency is mandated to take those young people. Supervisor walton and are there municipalities in this state to your knowledge that have closed their Juvenile Hall at this point in time . There are smaller jurisdictions in the state that have closed their Juvenile Hall, yes, that is correct. Supervisor walton so we have other municipalities who have already closed their Juvenile Hall in the state of california. Only to the extent that they have a subsequent Juvenile Hall facility where they can place their young people, and every county in the state that operates a juvenile justice system, and that is the rest of the other 57 counties all have the capacity either within their county or through a partnership with a neighboring county to detain young people. Supervisor walton correct, but we do have municipalities that have closed their Juvenile Hall in the state of california. That is correct. Supervisor walton when was log cabin closed . Log cabin ranch was closed somewhere in june of 2018. Supervisor walton and what is the plans that were doing with Log Cabin Ranch since its been closed . So the Log Cabin Ranch is part of a more comprehensive plan with respect to the facilities that are operated by the juvenile justice system. At the time that the Blue Ribbon Panel was created and this ordinance was introduced, we were already in the throes of bringing on a consultant to did he v d develop that master plan. Supervisor walton so were you hiding that process from the rest of the world because no one heard about that until you introduced the supervisor walton, there was no plan at that time. However, there was a process in place already initiated in partnership with the department of public works in our department to create a master plan for facilities that would have been inclusive of both Log Cabin Ranch and our juvenile Justice Administration building. So that process was already launched, and we scoped it back in favor of waiting for the outcomes either from the blue r ribbon panel or a task force. We didnt want to initiate the process supervisor walton where were these conversations happening because there was never a conversation with anyone about what was going to happen with the ranch until the ordinance was introduced. So was this happening behind closed doors . When was this planning process taking place . So i realize youve only been to the juvenile Probation Commission meeting once. Supervisor walton correct. But the juvenile Probation Commission meeting is the body that has been hearing the feedback towards developing an alternative for Log Cabin Ranch. Weve kept them informed of the process. In addition, weve also kept informed our juvenile justice delinquency administration team, which consisted of the judges, District Attorneys, public defenders, so this work is happening in partnership with the juvenile justice stakeholders who have a key role in deciding what the future should be for young people who require that level of incarceration. Supervisor walton and it was just publicized after the ordinance. Im not sure what your question is. Supervisor walton im asking when you decided to let people know and inform people that you were having discussions about what we could possibly do with Log Cabin Ranch moving forward . That is incorrect. Those discussions have been happening monthly since the closure of Log Cabin Ranch. Supervisor walton we talked about youre exactly right in terms of judges making decisions where our young people go, and ive actually had personal conversations with judges in San Francisco in terms of them wanting to see alternatives that look different and have had those conversations with them and been thorough in our conversations about how excited some of them would be if they saw a positive alternative. One thing i want to clarify in your statements and the belief of some folks is there is always going to be an in custody alternative because by state law, some people are required to be incarcerated. But what that in custody experience will look like will also provide alternate for young people to be rehabilitated and receive the supports to effectively make change, even if theyre going to be gone for a long time, and even if the crime that was committed was a serious offense. So i want to be clear, when we make comments, and we make irresponsible statements as if were not going to have an incustody experience for young people per state law, that is not in this lemgislation. This legislation talks about there will be that opportunity and there will be an opportunity for young people to make a better change. To be clear, i have not stated that San Francisco will not have a Juvenile Hall because i know the state law provision that requires that we have that capacity. The only difference in what i have stated thus far in all of my conversations on this issue is that if the court does not believe that the facility that exists within the county is a sufficient environment to house young people, that they can require those young people are housed outside the county. Supervisor walton correct, but that happens now . That does not happen now. Supervisor walton we have no cases where thats happened in San Francisco. Supervisor walton, i think youre conflating the supervisor walton the question is have we placed young people outside the county right now . Not for juvenile detention purposes. Supervisor walton my last question is with 2. 5year timeline to actually come up with alternatives and work closely with the experts, work closely with the community, do you feel that you are not prepared to reimagine Juvenile Hall and come up with that alternative currently in your role . I would say that i can be as innovative and as visionary as the next person. And i completely support efforts moving toward reform, and i completely understand why this ordinance is introduced. But let me be very, very clear. I also recognize that there are very significant challenges with respect to the timelines for creating alternative facilities, staffing those facilities, making sure that the programming is in place, making sure that the school and the Mental Health facilities are also colocated there, as well as having the opportunity to stand those institutions up in such a way as to replace the existing facility. Im concerned that that cant happen in 6 months time. Supervisor walton once this ordinance passes, you dont have confidence in your leadership to do that . Its not about confidence in my leadership, its about confidence that thats going to happen in the timeline thats being given. Supervisor walton so youre confiden confident in your leadership or not . President yee supervisor excuse me, id like to move this discussion along. We have a some amendments, and we will need to vote on this, and we have one more speaker. Supervisor walton i definitely appreciate it, president yee. I did not call chief nance here, but since hes here, i have the ability to ask questions here. President yee i just want to move it along. Supervisor walton i understand. I just want to be clear, i am confident in my leadership ability, but im not sure that the current timeline is realistic. Supervisor walton so 2. 5 years is not an appropriate time to come up with an appropriate lock up for the betterment of our young people . I am wholly confident that the vision for a future juvenile justice and Juvenile Hall setting can be realized within 2. 5 years. I am not confident that the institution that will serve as the facility to house these young people will be in plan within 6 months of being delivered. Supervisor walton so have you already looked at some of the residential treatment that we have for young people and the opportunities to build off of those models and the opportunity to get this done . Because what youre saying is this translates into something that you dont have the modelling to do. But if i look at residential Treatment Facilities here, and were talking about a small population, then youre telling me as a leader of the juvenile probation department, you dont feel you can put all those pieces together in this timeline . What im suggesting to you is that even if we were successful in developing the vision and the plan for the future, there are entities outside of my department and outside of the city and county of San Francisco that would have to look at those plans, approve those plans, and make determinations as to the feasibility and the suitability of whatever vision gets created, and having experienced this process with the board of state and community corrections, i am completely confident that that is something that is not going to happen in a short period of time. And to the extent that the contracting rules are going to require us to develop the capacity to make those modifications, it simply is going to be a real challenge to do that in six months. Supervisor walton real challenge, but not impossible. I dont know if its impossible. Supervisor walton but not impossible. A real challenge, but not likely. President yee supervisor ronen . Supervisor ronen yes. I have a couple of follow up questions to the chief through the chair. How many young people currently incarcerated are awaiting release to a nonlock placement . There are 15 young people in custody right now that are waiting for placement. Some have failed their prior placement and are waiting to be replaced. Some have new offenses that they committed while they were in those residential settings and are now waiting for adjudication. So all told, i would say there are at least 15 young people today that are in that placement category. Not all of them have been adjudicated on their current matter, and not all of them have a dispositional plan that has already been approved by the court. Supervisor ronen so of those 15 youth who will very shortly, if not today, be released to an insecure placement, an unlocked placement, how long have they been at Juvenile Hall . I dont know. I havent looked at their cases. Supervisor ronen how about a range . I wouldnt want to guess because the census changes every day. I would want to give you a date without actually looking at those records, but i can get that for you. Supervisor ronen after a Risk Assessment has been done by your department and its been determined that the kid is not dangerous if theyre released to the public, if theyre that a child should be released, have you ever overrode that assessment and kept the kid locked up . Yes. Supervisor ronen can you does that happen often . It happens occasionally. Some of the circumstances where that might happen is, for example, if we have a young person that does not have a parent or guardian or other responsible person to whom they can be released, that young person, we would override that detention and hold that young person in custody. [please stand by] thats not a true statement. It is a true statement. I appreciate you saying its a true statement but its simply not true and when the our agency excuse me. Can you ask for the president. Im happy to answer the question. Please, let me answer the question. Someone has given you false information. When the girls shelter closed, our agency wasnt even notified that the girls shelter was closing. We dont have a direct funding relationship with catholic charities, girls shelter and we called their agency into our office to meet with them so we can better understand why they made that decision. It was clear to us, through that conversation, that they made that decision because it wasnt Cost Effective for them to continue to operate the girls shelter when they had such a small census of girls in the facility. And it had nothing to do with defending by the probation department, Human Services agency or department of children youth. Im having my staff send me the email from dcyf where they say they defunded the shelter so we have no Community Placement for girls and i think its outrageous that weve done that and its something we need to fix. Is your department right now facing a lawsuit for unlawfully i am cars ratinincarcerate rati. I cannot speak publicly regarding pending litigation. Its my understanding your department is in violation. There was a court order to release a young person and the young person was way passed in our Juvenile Hall. One thing i will say on that point and you can talk to the City Attorneys office, we have one lawsuit. In the San Francisco juvenile rotatioprobation department. When i talked about how common lawsuits are in the city and in Public Service agencies, they repeatedly applaud the fact that there are so few litigation matters in the juvenile probation department. Its not by chance. Its because we purposely looked to follow the law and when there are errors, we address it immediately and make sure it doesnt happen again. While i cant talk about a specific case, i can tell you that that is a rarity in San Franciscos juvenile probation department. Supervisor yee thank you, very much. Its extremely rare for the chief District Attorney and the chief public defender in a department to be exact agreement on something. They have opposite rules and in fact they serve in an adversarial relationship although slightly more friendly in juvenile court. They both agree that at any given time in San Francisco, understate law, only about 15 youth at any given time need to be in a detained setting. They gave us the exact same number when we asked them. They both, also, our District Attorney and public defender have endorsed this legislation and agree that Juvenile Hall should be shut down. That rarely happens for the leaders of our criminaljustice system on opposite sides to be in agreement on that. The fact is, the Juvenile Hall is say punishmentbased system for children, the majority of whom have been traumatized throughout their young lives, who have witnesses unspeakable violence and who suffer from Mental Health disorders. In fact, the chief complaint of most young people in Juvenile Hall is they cant sleep at night. Yet, theyre detained by themselves in a locked, tiny concrete cell with only a steel toilet and a concrete slab and a thin mattress to sleep on for 11 hours a day. 11 hours a day when they cant sleep. Now, i would ask you, i am a mother of a young child. Though i have white skin, and my child has white skin, which means the likelihood she will go to Juvenile Hall, despite the fact she will break the law at various points in her life because most teenagers do, the chances of her going to Juvenile Hall are very slim. The fact that we have a system that is punishmentbased, doesnt allow kids to speak at meals. Teenagers with developing brains are isolated from one other so much of the day, is just fundamentally wrong. You can put lipstick on a pig but it is still a pig. Its time to close Juvenile Hall now and do so responsibly. Supervisor yee so, i think i have one more speake