To raise your hand to speak. At this time i will ask the moderators to please allow the next caller in the queue to speak. Can you repeat your question, caller . [no audio] caller, can you please repeat your question . Caller hi, yes. Two questions. One, what were the total number of officers fired and how many lethal shots . The deescalation at one point there were multiple officers shouting and one of the officers suggested that one person at a time speak. I wasnt sure if that was that officers initiative were part of the department policy. Thank you. Thank you, caller, for your question. I heard that your question you asked how many officers fired lethal and how many fires fired less lethal and the answer is two fires fired lethal and two officers fired less lethal. To your latter question, on the video where you heard the officer repeatedly say indiscernible that is a part of our coordination as the way that our officers are trained. And as you have heard on the video, the officers were trying to communicate with mr. Estrada and they were trying to as much as they could do that to make sure that only one person was speaking. So that is a part of training. And it is it was heard on the video repeated several times so i hope that answers your question. If it didnt, please ask it again. Thank you, caller. Caller hello. I would like to ask a question directly to chief scott. Its regarding the trauma induced incidents. I remember hearing chief scott speak about how officers are trained with trauma induced incidents when someone is under the influence of either a psychotic break or a threat to themselves or someone else. From watching the incident i know that it seemed to build this man up and swearing at the officers and refusing to put down his weapon. What i saw was a person in severe pain crying with each wound and the actual communication with Lethal Weapon attempt to use traumainduced training. And, obviously, the communication is said to be over 90 nonverbal, the person didnt receive the message that was being sent when only lethal force was used. Very, very confusing. I say a whimpering person crying in pain with every blow of nonLethal Weapons and Lethal Weapons. So what is traumainduced interaction and deescalation . Thank you. Thank you, caller, for your question. As in any investigation, we will look at this investigation from top to bottom and we will look at and examine the communication, the tactics as it compares to our training and policies. And those areas where we find that we might need improvement, we will work to improve. So i know that doesnt answer your question directly about trauma induced. And im not able to go into much of the details or investigative findings as to whether or not that was appropriate for this particular case because i have not seen all of the statements. We have not had an opportunity to even have access to mr. Estrada. And even when we do have an opportunity, its up to mr. Estrada whether or not he will provide any insight in terms of, you know, the trauma question but to your question we are and we always will strive to look at these incidents and we try to learn from them and be better for the next one. And hopefully to prevent the next one from happening. Thank you. Will the moderators please allow the number member of the public to provide Public Comment. Caller hi. My name is lawrence and im with district 9 or i live in district 9. The similarities between this incident and the incident with mr. Vargas recently are shockingly similar. We have an individual in crisis with a knife, who is approached with by extreme violence from sfpd. So my question is what specific steps will the sfpd take to ensure that this doesnt happen again . Thank you, caller, for your question. Again, similar to the last callers question, you know, we have to look at this and we have to analyze every aspect of this investigation. If we find that there are gaps in either training or gaps in equipment or how we deal with people in crisis, thats when we go to work and try to identify how to address those gaps, i. E. , i do not disagree with you about the similarities of this incident and the last one. In fact, in the last three incidents. However, each one of those incidents they had their own particular nuances and we always look at these to get better. Our training over the last several years has paid dividends. When you look at the aggregate number of incidents which we use force for people in crisis is very, very low. However, with that said, i dont disagree that we always are striving to get better to prevent these incidents from happening and we will do that on this incident when its all said and done, well analyze. Well look at every aspect of our Training Division and our investigators and analyze this case and the department of Police Accountability and others who will weigh in and give us feedback. So that is the process. As we have seen for the last several years, we believe that our processes have made us better and we will continue to try to get better to prevent these types of incidents from happening. Hi, im a indiscernible resident. You said that only one officer is part of your deescalation training and we heard multiple officers shouting commands at th at the t who was sobbing and that was one of the most horrifying things that i have ever seen. If you tell us that youre correctly implementing your deescalation, you are a death squad that terrorizing people with Mental Illness and others. I cant believe that you could see someone weeping on the ground like that, someone who is supposed to be trained to deal with such a situation. I agree with the previous caller who said that this is very similar to the vargas incident which was only last month. This is horrifying and extremely disturbing. Thats all i have to say. Coyl caller hello. So i live near the area where this happened. And i just i guess that i have questions about how this occurred. And what is being done after the fact to support the person who was shot by Police Multiple Times and seemed to be faced and shot with the bean bags and the baton. Does this person remain in restraints . I know that you mentioned charges, so, you know, if theyre in the hospital with lifethreatening injuries, do they remain in restraints or given any care . And what is the followup for caring for this person . Thank you. Thank you, caller, for your call. The person is still hospitalized and its really up to the hospital staff to determine whats appropriate for their patient. And i cant speak, im not a part of the staff and i cant speak to what is appropriate, because im not there. But i will say that typically the hospital staff in our city do not restrain patients unless theres a need to do that. And typically that is not what they do, so like i said i cant speak to whether or not that is the case or not. What i can tell you is that typically they dont. In terms of you asked about charges. There are changes filed on the arson that was mentioned in commander osullivans presentation the other charges are still being evaluated by the District Attorney office. For those who wish to provide Public Comment this evening please call 1 415 6550001. To provide Public Comment in english please enter access code 1461581628. Please note that you must press star, 3, in order to raise your hand to offer Public Comment. Language Interpretation Services are also available for Public Comment in both spanish and cantonese. For spanish interpretation please enter access code 1466346455. This number is also on your screen. Please remember that you must press star, 3, in order to raise your hand to speak. Will the interpreters on the line please relay this message to any callers that may be on the spanish interpretation line. For cantonese interpretation, please enter access code 1462098585. Remember that you must press star, 3, to raise your hand to speak. Will the interpreters on the line please relay this message to any callers that may be on the cantonese interpretation lines. At this time i will ask the moderators to please allow the next caller in the queue to speak. Caller hello, my name is jason and im with district 10. I have lived in San Francisco for over 20 years and i am losing count of how many times that ive called on Public Comment about San FranciscoPolice Officers either fatally shooting someone or in a way putting them in the hospital. And im just at a loss for how youre supposed to train this out of sfpd at this moment. It just keeps happening and happening and happening and i have no question other than disappointment that this is the city and this is a police force here and it just keeps happening. And i just want to know when will it actually end, instead of just reviewing, and reviewing and reviewing, when will it actually end . We dont need more reviews to know what is happening is wrong. Thank you, caller. Ork in a ll hospital here and i was wondering if the city is doing anything to help with Mental Health problems and drug use . As far as im aware that any assaults that happen when a person voluntarily takes drugs or alcohol, they can be charged for that . However, were not staff have repeatedly been assaulted and nothing is happening. Thank you, caller. That is a very challenging issue for our city. There are arrests and enforcement done for possession of controlled substances and particularly for sales of controlled substances. But its a very pervasive problem and, definitely, we hear you. Were working as hard as we can and working with the other city agencies and collaborating with the other city agencies to address this problem in a more effective manner. But it is a challenge for our city. So we will continue to work on it is what i can tell you at this point, but were working with our Public Health officials and our District Attorneys office and as far as the criminal Justice System is concerned and our Sheriffs Office and working with our communitybased organizations and we have been working very hard to come up with better solutions. So we definitely understand your frustration. Well continue to work on it, but i will freely admit and agree that its a problem for our city. Caller yeah, good evening. First i wanted to just commend your officers on how you guys have dealt with this case and the vargas case, i know that is not an easy task. Also with this video and the footage that was shown, i think that you guys did a great job up until about the discharge from the officer number 4 who discharged his firearm. I thought that might have been a little excessive. I dont understand how with all of this Police Reform legislation coming into play, how any civilians would be able to deal with this responding to a case like this, so i dont know if you can speak to that. And also why didnt your officers have tasers . Thats all that i have. Thank you, caller. We are constantly working for our mayors direction and for the will of the people of San Francisco. Working for better solutions. And speaking specifically on your question about how the civilian individuals would deal with that type of situation, what we see at this point because there are cases where there is not violence at hand and theres not a weapon seen and people are in a mental crisis and they cause, you know, calls for service to be called. And we are really working hard with our other City Partners and our Fire Department and the Public Health officials on finding ways to have those calls addressed absent a Police Response. Thats a work in progress. And there is a Crisis Response team that you probably have heard about that will be rolled out here shortly. But thats going to be an evolution and its going to take time to build that program up. We do we have looked at models across the country, other models in other states and other cities, where that type of solution has been effective for them. But then there comes a point where there is violence and criminal activity and weapons seen and people either Peoples Health or safety is in jeopardy, or somebodys actual life is in jeopardy. And on those calls, we do believe that Police Response is appropriate for that. We are trained for that. I mentioned earlier to one of the other callers about our crisis intervention training and all of the deescalation training and other things that were doing to try to get better at that. And i think that the data really bears out that were better at that than we were in years past. So thats an evolution that will continue. And i think that there is work to be had to create a model where we, the Police Department, arent responding to calls, where were not needed. Calls where theres not violence and theres not a threat to anybodys safety and theres not criminal activity but a person is in a mental crisis. As it stands right now we get those calls as well and we do respond. So do think that theres room to work with our partners and our communitybased partners. The crimes that have violence and weapons and the like, those calls i think are appropriately handled by Police Departments and were definitely working as hard as we can to be as good as we can to handle those calls without bad outcomes. Caller hello, district 9 resident. I would like to echo the previous callers statement showing disappointment with the sfpd and its my pleef that this crisis could have been handled and deescalated. The sfpd doesnt make me or my community feel safe and doing the same thing over and over again, and yelling at a man in crisis and expecting different results seems like a flawed response. This occurred on busy market street, what precautions to protect innocent bystanders were taken or was it luck that no one else was hurt . Thank you, caller, for your question. Without dissecting and going into the statements of the officers, what i will say on that is that you look at our videos that have now been posted or will be posted online once this town hall is over and i think that you will be able to see some of the commands that were given to try to protect the bystanders that were standing around. Again, were a week into this investigation. Its premature for me to make an assessment on everything that happened in that investigation. As commander osullivan said, you know, theres over 85 videos and statements that we have to do. There were hundreds of people. But i think that if you look at the video at this point you will be able to see what the officers were doing in terms of trying to keep the crowd safe. Caller hello, im a resident of district 11. The overarching disappointment and the genuine seething anger that we all in this city have after having to watch you abuse people in these town halls once a month, i cannot believe that we are in the middle of a civil rights uprising asking for police to be less brutal and twice in the span of essentially a month the San FranciscoPolice Department touted as the liberal bastion of all Police Departments, has shot people twice. Twice. Twice in a month. Twice in a month. I cant believe that you are all paid as much as you are to do what you do. My genuine question is simply this do you legitimately think that people deserve to die at the hands of the police . Let me repeat do you genuinely think that people deserve to die at the hands of the police . Thank you, caller, for your question. Our ultimate objective is to protect the sanctity of life. That is our ultimate objective. Caller im appalled, and disgusted, and moved to tears and nausea. I cant believe that i live in a liberal bastion of San Francisco where people are tortured in the streets. He was on the ground and you all shot him numerous more times. How is this okay . Hes a human being. What makes you all any fucking better . Abolish police. You all are a Public Safety hazard. You kill people. I dont know how you you will be abolished. We will get rid of you. Caller hi, i live in district 9 and i want to say that a person remains in the hospital in Critical Condition with lifethreatening injuries because the Police Responded to a crisis event and escalated the trauma. This is a failure of the police and a failure of our city. Why are we choosing this over actually helping people . Why are we choosing to respond to people with guns and threatening to kill them instead of actually simply helping people . Its sick. Youre never going to help a person in crisis by responding with an armed militia. You never are. Its just inhumane. Police shot at a human being several times while he was laying on the ground. They thought that the idea that he did not follow a command i saw one person crying in pain while police pointed guns at him and threatened his life. I agree with the majority of the previous callers this is tragically similar to the police and shooting of vargas last month who was also a person in crisis. Im sick of these reviews and bureaucratic approaches to justifying violence. Sfpd killed someone last month and sfpd will continue to be a violent force in our city until we abolish all of the police. So defund the sfpd and the sheriffs and all of the cops and implement the Community Services that we need that could actually help people, help our neighbors. And you say that you will, quote, to be better for the next one, quote . So, yeah, i have an idea as how you can make sure that this doesnt happen again and its the only way that its going to work because these videos and this event was just failed reform over and over again. Failing people, and by fai