Okay. Good evening and welcome to the september 27th, 2023 meeting of the San Francisco board of appeals. President rick swig will be the presiding officer tonight and he is joined by Vice President jose lopez. Commissioner john trasvina, commissioner alex lundberg, and commissioner j. R. Eppler. We expect deputy City Attorney john givner to arrive shortly, and he will provide the board with any needed legal advice at the controls is the boards legal assistant, alec longway, and im Julie Rosenberg, the boards executive director. We will also be joined by representatives from the city departments that will be presenting before the board this evening. Id like to welcome andrew perry, a planner with the Planning Department, who will be representing the Planning Department. And we also have Matthew Green, Deputy Director of Inspection Services with the department of building inspection, and chris buck, urban forester representing San Francisco public works, bureau of urban forestry. Now, the Board Meeting guidelines are, as follows the board requests that you turn off or silence all phones and other Electronic Devices so they will not disturb the proceedings. No eating or drinking in the hearing room. The boards rules of presentation are as follows appellants permit holders and Department Respondents each are given seven minutes to present their case and three minutes for rebuttal. People affiliate with these parties must include their comments within these 7 or 3 minute periods. Members of the public who are not affiliated with the parties have up to three minutes each to address the board and no rebuttal time may be limited to two minutes if the agenda is long or if there are large number of speakers for cases that have been previously heard. The parties are given three minutes each with no rebuttal. Mr. Longway, our legal assistant, will give you a verbal warning 30s before your time is up. Four votes are required to grant an appeal or to modify a permit or determination. Even if you have any questions about requesting a rehearing, the board rules or hearings schedules, please email board staff at board of appeals at sveaborg. Now Public Access and participate in are of paramount importance to the board. Sf govtv is broadcasting and streaming this hearing live and we will have the ability to receive Public Comment for each item on todays agenda as sf govtv is also providing closed captioning for this meeting to watch the hearing on tv go to sf govtv cable channel 78. Please note that it will be rebroadcast last on fridays at 4 p. M. On channel 26. A link to the live stream is found on the home page of our website at sf. Org. Forward slash voa now Public Comment can be provided in three ways one in person two via zoom please go to our website, click on the hearing link and then zoom link or three by telephone calls. One 669 a9006833 and enter webinar id 82159804099. And again sf govtv is broadcasting and streaming the phone number and access instructions across the bottom of the screen. If youre watching the live stream or broadcast just to block your phone number when calling in first dial star six seven then the phone number list in for the Public Comment portion for your item to be called and dial star nine, which is the equivalent of raising your hand so that we know you want to speak and you will be brought into the hearing when it is your turn, you may have to dial star six to unmute yourself. You will have 2 to 3 minutes depending on the length of the agenda and the volume of speakers. Our legal assistant will provide you with a verbal warning 30s before your time is up, please note that there is a delay between the live proceedings and what is broadcast and live streamed on tv and the internet. Therefore, it is very important that people calling in, reduce or turn off the volume on their tvs or computers. Otherwise, there is interference with the meeting. If any of the participants or attendees on zoom need a disability accommodation or technical assistance, you can make a request in the chat function to our long way. The boards legal assistant, or send an email to board of appeals at icgov. Org. Org. The chat function cannot be used to provide Public Comment or opinions. Please note that we will take Public Comment first from those members of the public who are physically present in the hearing room. Now we will swear in or affirm all those who intend to testify. Please note that any member of the public may speak without taking an oath pursuant to their rights under the sunshine ordinance. If you intend to testify at any of tonights proceedings and wish to have the board give your testimony evidentiary wait, raise your right hand and say i do. After youve been sworn in or affirmed, do you swear or affirm that the testimony youre about to give will be the truth , the whole truth, and nothing but the truth . Thank you. If you are a participant and youre not speaking, please put your zoom speaker on mute. So commissioners prior to the meeting i spoke with president swig about the order of the agenda and we agreed that item six, a and six b should be heard after item four, just to let you know and also to announce that to the public. So we are now moving on to item number one, which is general Public Comment. This is an opportunity for anyone who would like to speak on a matter within the boards jurisdiction, but that is not on tonights calendar. Is there any member of the public who wishes to speak on an item that is not on tonights calendar . No okay. I see somebody on zoom. Theres nobody in the hearing room. So the phone number ending in 6049. Please go ahead. You may need to press star six to unmute yourself. Okay. Can you hear me . Yes great. Thank you. Julie its david osgood at lincoln center. Just want to kind of wrap up the rincon annex matter. Um and thank you all for your time on the on the issue. I understand because of the way this was settled and there wont be any kind of report from the commission on which is unfortunate because i think that would be a way of maybe bringing about some reform. Um, and more than one issue came to light during this process where some reform could be would be a good thing. I want to give you one example that came to light. Since we submitted our second brief and you may want to keep this in mind in the future when you get Historic Buildings coming before you, what we realized is that the Planning Department is using the wrong secretary of interior standards. Um, and it doesnt appear to be a mistake. I dont know if you are aware of this, but theres actually four standards , one of which is a preservation one and another one is rehabilitation in the Planning Department analyzed the, the rehab habilitation standards that length in their brief and they spent about five pages on it and we think its the wrong standards and they should have been looking at the preservation standards which is a separate different set. Theres actually two others, but the reason is that when you get a building thats in pretty good shape, like rincon annex, its really a matter of preservation and i think they concede that they had a numerous opportunities to tell you that theres four standards and were using the rebuild station standards and heres why. But they never did that. And the standards are quite different. If you look at bullet one and the preservation standards, theyre calls for maximizing the retention of materials, the rehabilitation is calls for minimal change. So theres a big difference there. And if you care about you know, preservation, you may want to bring this up with planning and even ask them tonight why they would ignore the preservation standards. Thats time. Okay. Thank you. Mr. Osgood. Is there any further Public Comment . Please raise your hand. I dont see any, so well move on to item number two. Commissioner comments and questions. Commissioners. Anybody have anything tonight . Commissioner trasvina. Thank. Thank you, president swig. And i think i wish the City Attorney were here because after the last meeting, as you know, i followed up with the City Attorneys office regarding the issue of the allegations and complaints of any retaliation for people who come before us. And i think thats important. I also think its important that the public know that we do listen to the Public Comment. And i would hope when mr. Givner arrives or shortly thereafter at an appropriate point, we can find out where the City Attorneys office is in terms of studying, studying the matter and with regard to the first matter we just heard in interesting points and i hope the member of the public contacts the department himself as well as supervisors or or others. Are there some things that this board of appeals can do when we have a matter . But sometimes we cant. So i just wanted to follow up with the City Attorney when he arrives. Thank you. Okay thank you. In terms of any discussion that might be had, it should be probably agendized. So. Right. So if you wanted to agendize it for the future, we could or you could separately talk to the City Attorney. But there shouldnt be a discussion on the Public Record unless we have an agendized item. Yeah, i would suggest that that you to clarify with Julie Rosenberg the, the specific question that you have or an area that you would like addressed and, and she puts it on as an item to address that specific question so that the public again can comment on it and we can have a full conversation, transparent. Commissioner trasvina, outside the hearing and we can talk to the City Attorney. I would be happy to do that. But i just want to know where the City Attorney is on it. I dont want to agendize something and if theyre not ready, so its premature to agendize it, but you why dont you clarify . I would suggest that you you clarify the issue. You know, it can be any issue because youre your commissioner and you can do say you can ask whatever you want. Im not being sarcastic anyway, but if theres a specific issue, the issue of which you spoke last week or any other issue. The process isnt this good for the public. This is why im being so wordy that go go to the to go to miss rosenberg. Your your question its formal or formally presented as a question to the City Attorney. It is a agendized. Your question will be there in front of everybody. So that it will allow the public days before the hearing to know what your question is. So if anybody wants to comment on your question from the public, they can do that. While the City Attorney has the opportunity to prepare an answer to your question, i know it sounds kind of like really that much, but its really a good thing and we can discuss it amongst ourselves , too, in public right. Thank you, president swig. I just wanted to clarify. I just meant there cant be any discussion on it, but if you want to just ask to ask about the status, i think that would be appropriate. Okay. So are there any further commissioner comments and questions . Is there any Public Comment on this item . I dont see any hands raised, so we will move on to item number three. This is adoption of the minutes commissioners before you for discussion and possible adoption. Are the minutes of this september 13th, 2023 meeting and prior to the meeting, commissioner trevino reached out to me and indicated he would like an addition made to the comments made by Marcelo Fonseca under general Public Comment. In the second sentence, commissioner trevino would like to add the words, quote, being vindictive by quote, end quote. After the word was so, the proposed sentence would read, quote, he stated that he was calling to make the commissioners aware that the sfmta was being vindictive by going after the same permit holders that the board helped not long ago. So we would need a motion by commissioners. Do i have a motion with those changes . Somebody so moved. Thank you. Is there any Public Comment on the motion to adopt the minutes as amended by commissioner trasvina . I see one hand raised. Okay. Now the hand went down. Okay so we have a motion on from Vice President lopez to adopt the minutes as amended by commissioner trasvina on that motion. Commissioner trasvina, i commissioner lundberg, i commissioner epler i president swig. All right. That motion carries 5 to 0 and theyre adopted as amended. So we are now moving on to item number four. An and this is appeal number 20 3030. Bruce and Deborah Mccloud versus department of building inspection Planning Department approval subject property 144 25th avenue appealing the issuance on june 9th, 2023 to Frank Bellizzi of an alteration permit. The project generally consists of replacement of the existing first floor deck and expanding the deck to the rear yard setback line, an addition of a roof deck above the second Bedroom Office floor accessed via four new doors from the third floor office. This is permit number 2023 0202 1229. Note on august 2nd, 2023, upon motion by commissioner eppler, the board voted 5 to 0 to continue this item to september 27th in order to give the parties an opportunity to confer and seek a resolution to the matter with input from the Planning Department. The board further encouraged the project sponsor to reach out to members of the public who expressed concerns about the project. At the hearing. So as a preliminary matter, commissioners, the appellant would like to he has a point of order and would like to make a request. So were going to give him three minutes and then the permit holder will have an opportunity to respond. Thank you very much. Speaking to the microphone, please, so we can hear you. And so the public can hear you. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you very much. Um, this will be brief overhead. Please. I try described where we were at the end of our session last time and it was very clear from, from the closing that we were to submit a one page only. Memorandum about very specific things about what we had done and whether we had reached agreement or not. But that is what i did. The permit holders submitted that at and also 16 more pages and argumentative of pages, pages that have a lot of things that can be disputed and all. Alternatively, i would like either there filing to be stricken or me allowed to have a reply of ten pages or so to their 17 and okay. Thank you. Are you done, mr. Mccloud . Well with the first one. Okay. I mean , were not starting your case yet. Were just. The other thing i wanted to cover was into the mic. Please. Thank you. Sorry. Sorry about that. Laid stuff out over there. The other thing i would like to cover is that i had prepared and have with me today a binding settlement offer. I had a draft of it last week when this case we were to file our one page motion and i when i saw the permit holders filed at the very last moment, i filed mine at pretty much the last moment i saw the permit holders had submitted all that additional stuff as well. I had prepared really it was just to go to the permit holders, a sort of complete analysis of the case. But and prefaced by a binding settlement offer with all the formalities that you would contain. When i realized that they had filed this extra 16 pages, i thought, well, let me file my binding settlement offer as well as the explanation of it. But i was denied that as being late. I was 35 minutes late, so i would like to distribute that out to the board. Okay you have 30s left. You have 30s left. I really have nothing more. Okay, so the permit holder has an opportunity to respond to your request. So he will address the board. Now mr. Bellizzi, you have three minutes. Sure good evening, commissioners. So, just to remind everyone, when we had our original hearing, the mcleods failed to file in a proper manner. Although the instructions were very clear. And as i think one of you pointed out, we were gracious and actually embedding that into our into our brief so that they could be heard. This has now happened a second time. It was abundantly clear what we needed to do. We i spoke with julie. She made it very clear exhibits were allowed. We could list the communications, anything having to do directly with settlements and thats what we did. So we again, have no objection to the mcleods proposal being put in. I think, as youll see, its one that makes no sense in terms of trying to find compromise. Its their proposal for our deck and we can get into that in the actual three minutes. I dont want to take up any more of your time, but thank you. Thank you. Did the Planning Department or the Building Department want to weigh in on these requests . Okay. So president swig, hes asking the so to address the first the first one, typically, when its one page to page, three pages, thats thats commentary. Thats editorial. And it does not include it exhibits which dont not have a point of view, but but rather support it as visible visual aids for the for the commissioners. I am sorry that that was misinterpreted or not explained clearly to the appellant. Had the appellant had a communication with the with yourself, ms. Rosenberg they would have discovered that the same way the permit holder did. So so theres so for clarity, t