Transcripts For ALJAZAM Consider This 20140731 : vimarsana.c

Prorussian rebels have planted land mines around the site. These sanctions will hurt the russian economy. For terror organizations around the world, this has become a cottage industry. The government is the main source of money. And corporations paying ransom in secret. You dont have to run a marathon, you dont have to run a mile. You only need a few minutes a day to get Significant Health benefits. Getting out each day because every step counts. We begin with an attack wednesday in gaza that killed at least 20 people at a u. N. School where at least 3,000 displaced palestinians had taken refuge. Hit by four shells, two shells hit classrooms where people were asleep. In jerusalem a Spokesman Says Israeli Forces had been told 17 times that refugees were being sheltered at that school. We condemn in the strongest possible terms the serious violation of International Law by Israeli Forces. This is an afront to all of us. A source of universal shame. Today the world stands disgraced. In washington a National Security Council Spokesman condemned the attack, saying the United States is extremely concerned that israel claimed, hamas for hiding weapons in u. N. Facilities. Meanwhile a spokesman for Israeli Military said israel attack. In the morning there was mortar fired right from next to the school. There was an exchange of fire with our forces. Clearly it is a tragedy but the idf does not intentionally target u. N. Premise says. More than 1300 palestinians have been killed in the fighting most of them civilians as well as 56 Israeli Soldiers and three civilians. Nick schifrin, is there anyplace in gaza that people can go to and feel safe . Reporter if you ask any gazan where they are in their homes hiding out from israeli bombs or here in gaza city having fled from those bombs or whether they are in u. N. Schools they will say no. They will ask the question, where do you want me to go . Exactly what the u. S. Has pointed out, the white house has pointed out, if israel has urged these people to go to u. N. Shelters closer to gaza city, away from their homes closer to the border and those u. N. Schools turned shelters are attacks, there is nowhere safe. One in eight or one in nine of all of gaza, if those are already full, they have gone to private homes in gaza city. But ive talked to multiple gazans, who transfer their family every night. Different areas are being shelled. The answer is that many gazans say there is nowhere safe. They simply say, the fightings everywhere, where do you want me to go . Hamas is boasting of its terror tunnels which before it didnt really talk about much showing video of how hamas fighters went into israel and killed israel soldiers. So at this point is israel at all motivated to stop this until it gets rid of all of these tunnels . So far, weve seen israel absolutely against and forcefully push back against any kind of pressure including from president obama himself. According to u. S. And israeli officials, president obama and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu two nights ago or rather last night had a very heated conversation. Obama made it clear that he wanted this to stop. He wanted a ceasefire. The Prime Minister made it clear it wasnt going ostop until their mission was done. Now only Silver Lining tonight is that in the last few hours an israeli official has suggested that the tunnel mission, the mission to destroy all those tunnels antonio that you mentioned, to attack israeli troops and try and kidnap them, weve seen evidence of that, might be done within the next few days. So the indication there or the hint from that official is that if indeed the military can get that part of the mission done then youll see the political leaders much more interested much more willing in accepting or at least being willing to consider one of these ceasefire that the so far they have rejected in the last week. They still want the egyptian proposal which was the original one, hamas completely rejected that. We are far away from any real solution but if the israelis are willing to go towards a ceasefire then you can see the u. S. In the middle. Nick schifrin good to have you with us, thanks. For a look at where this conflict is going im joined by daniel kurtzer, served as deputy secretary of state for near eastern affairs. Ambassador good of to you join us. The u. N. Says six of its schools in gaza have been struck by shell fire since the offensive began. That israel is likely to be responsible for all of those attacks, gaza hospitals have been hit repeatedly. I understand the fog of war and soldiers will fight back when fired upon. But shouldnt israelis avoid hitting places that they know are sheltering hundreds if not thousands of people . This is a very small area, crowded area and civilians are going into u. N. Shelters where hamas fighters are located and where there are hamas arsenals. So you have this really volatile mix of civilians and fighters. And when israel returns fire it will return fire to these places. Yes, israel needs to do a better job of preventing civilian casualties. But hamas also shares a great deal of responsibility for locating its fighters and its arsenal had these places. Now usually israeli Public Opinion is as divided as in any other country. In the past israelis have turned against military action when lots of civilians are killed. Thats not happening now. Results show that israelis think that it hasnt been enough so 93 of israelis support whats happening in gaza. What has changed . Well, there is an extraordinary consensus of support for this operation. And i think it derives from the discovery of how extensive the Tunnel Network really has been. The israelis have known about the tunnels for quite some time. They have been used mostly until now for smuggle things into gaza. Consumer goods and Building Materials and of course weapons as well. But i think the israeli public as well as the military was shocked by the fact that this extensive tunneling network could have resulted in almost a small invasion of hamas fighters into the territory of the state of israel. And therefore, the population is looking at the military to close down that Strategic Offensive threat. Now, hamas repeated again on wednesday that it would only agree of a truc truce if israeld agree to a lifting of the blockade of gaza. President obama has certainly called for that and treaties for the palestinians have called for demill triesation of gaza going back two decades. Rks demilitarization of gaza going back two decades. Israel wants a system where hamas is demilitarized, the gaza strip is demilitarized, and hamas cant remilitarize over the next period. Hamas would like to see gaza open to the world. These are resolvable discrete issues. The problem is that you have the politics of negotiating between a state and a nonstate actor, terrorist organization, and neither one of them wants to see the other gain an advantage. So its going to take some saw what happened to secretary kerry in his last proposal because israelis were not happy that he seemed to be negotiating indirectly with hamas and that he had favored hamas too far. But then is israel creating a bigger monster here . Because the people in gaza, half of them were unemployed, half of them were getting food aid. This is before this all happened. There was little hope and you and i have all heard it described as an open air prison. Weve got 10 displaced, virtually no power, problems with water. Again is this making things worst, is it going to make the palestinians more intransigent . Youve got the difference between short term and long term objectives. They have lost family members their homes have been destroyed, many are talking about joining the resistance. In the short term, you have the problem that there is a threat to the population of israel and israel feels it had to take care of it. You know it comes back to the only logical answer here which is a resolution of the underlying conflict. And i think to the extent that you know perhaps an opportunity may result from this terrible tragedy, it would be to get some kind of a process moving again, which can resolve the overall conflict. Otherwise i think antonio you are exactly right. In the past egypt has supported hamas. Thats not the case now. Hamas, some argue, is firing missiles into israel as much to get egypt to open its border crossings with gaza as to go after the israelis. Egypts attempt to mediate a ceasefire didnt work. Do you think the sisi government in cairo wants israel to go on with its offensive . There are signs that egypt is not unhappy with what israel is doing. Knock out the tunnels between egypt and gaza, you see a government in egypt now that considers hamas a threat, destabilized place because of weapons coming out of goos. So the egyptians see a larger strategic interest with israel. Hamass problems are they dont have a lot of friends in the arab world. They have sympathy for whats happening in the arab world but not support for hamas. You dont think anything is going to change quickly . No, i dont think so. I think the demands of the two sides on a ceasefire are still so far apart and the fact that israel feels its got more work to do on the tunnels, suggests theres more days ahead of us on this type of situation. Thank you for being with us. Thanks antonio. As we just mentioned a overwhelming number of israelis strongly back the operation in gaza. But there are some that find serious fault with the israel tactics. Former combat soldier in the west bank. He works for a group that works on injustices for the yehuda military. Former Israeli Air Force officer wrote about her time in the service in the guardian on monday saying i believed with all my heart that we were doing what needed to be done. Things have changed and now i can no longer have that certainty. How have things changed . I think when uli, my comrade, wrote that things have changed, she doesnt necessarily say that things have chained on the ground. I think when she says things have changed, she changed, the way she sees the things and the reality and the way she understands. Because it was a thing for me, when i was in the military during the second intefada, when i was able to start to think about life as a civilian that i started questioning and i started kind of like realizing that the way i justify things to myself throughout my service didnt make sense nirl. Your groups point is the Israeli Military acts not with just whats happening in goos to control palestinians, to break their will, to let the palestinians know that Israeli Forces are always going to be there and they should be afraid to stand up for themselves . We are a group of almost 1,000 israeli veterans who served in combat units from the beginning of the sick intefada until today. We believe in a very simple thing. Our military should be an instrument of defense and not occupation. What were trying to do is hold up a mirror in front of our society and demand of our society to take moral and civil responsibility for whats being done in our name. And whats being done in our name is a prolonged occupation thats built and designed to are increase it and increase it and this hole has no bottom. Thats why what we want to do and what we want to see happening is climbing out this hole and ending the occupation. You say that its designed to do that and that this leads to all sorts of abuses, that its institutional, and that is abusive behavior is policy that is set by the Israeli Defense forces . Look, one of the main things ive done during my service is what we call in the military making our presence felt. What does it mean. The concept, the idea is that palestinians if theyll get the feeling that the idf is all the time everywhere theyll be afraid to attack. So in order to basically make them feel this way you make your presence felt. And the way it methods manifests itself, we used to have 247 patrols work in the old city of hebron. Eight hour shift walking the streets, bump into a random house, these are not houses we had intelligence about, sergeant leaves the patrol, chooses a house, i was a sergeant, wake up the family, tear apart the place, finish searching, go out knock on another house, bump into the family and search the place and thats how you would fast your eight hour shift, 24 hours a day, seven days a week, from the second intefada started, the palestinian will feel that the military is right here, you never know how were going to show up, its what we call in the military to create the feeling of being pursued. These are basically phrases that we used in our briefings. How do you respond to an idf spokesman who says your group is just about smearing the Israeli Military, that the examples you brought up represent a minuscule portion of Israeli Soldiers and any bad behavior your group has uncovered had been reported to the idf that the soldiers who did those ciensdz of things would be hundz kinds kinds of things would be behind bars . The spokesmen approved thats one of the things they do. So this is not one rogue soldier. Thats the mission. Now the other thing i would say is, i dont on a very, very deep level i dont believe the problem is the idf. I believe the problem is the Political Mission the i dfortf is sent to carry out. When your Political Mission is to maintain a prolonged mission over another people, thats the way it looks, think of it, we had war winter, autumn clouds, we had operation cast sled, and you ask yourself where is it going. So thats the idea, thats the big strategy that every two years well have an operation. Every operation will be more aggressive than the previous one and the death toll will just rise and were going just for another operation . Actually, what we need to do is to rethink our strategies and to look for a different way out. So you think this operation would have happened even if hamas hadnt been shooting 100 rockets a day into israel . I do want to end with asking you i guess a final question. Is israel doing what it can . Do you believe its doing what i can to avoid civilian casualties in gaza as it claims . On the other hand do you think the palestinians are putting their civilians in harms way by putting missiles and other armaments in other areas . Look, youre not going to hear good words about hamas from my mouth. Hamas is a terrorist organization. No doubt sadly enough i dont believe israel is doing everything we can to avoid civilian casualties. Just look at this new articulate tick that is tactic that is in this operation a main strategy and admitted by ministers and generals which we call this knock on the roof. You take a house which is a house of a hamas activist somewhere in the middle of gaza and that suddenly turns this building into a direct target even though it doesnt pose a direct issue. Even though you know theres civilians inside, this idea when you ask civilians to leave the the building and they havent listened to you they deserve the Death Penalty is outrageous. I think that just shows you that every operation we tend to cross another more red line that we havent crossed before and slowly slowly we get used to it. 47 years of occupation were not able to feel empathy with palestinians, we are not able to see them as equal human beings and just like i as a soldier the first palestinian house i burst in i still felt something the face of the children brought me to start to ask questions, the 10th time i did it i got used to it. We are here also. The first operation in gaza we were shocked but the death toll of civilians is rising up. Were not willing were not able as a society to understand and realize and put question marks and thats very very sad thing for me. Yehuda shaol, thank you very much for joining me. Now for more stories from around the world. We begin in kano nigeria where a female suicide bomber killed three people and injured seven more. Fourth Suicide Attack in as many days by young women and girls. A new tactic by the boko haram terrorist group. Another school in kano and on monday two attacks by young women targeted a gas station and shopping center, killing three and injuring 13 others. On tuesday, three minimum tants were arrested one of them a tenyearold girl who was wearing a explosive belt. Next to washington, d. C. Where the u. S. State department has barred venezuelan officials from entering the United States. Abuses committed against antigovernment forces earlier this year. Certain venezuelan officials responsible for recent human rights abuses. The action he taken today are not directed against the people of venezuela. They are in support of human rights and narrowly targets specific individuals responsible for repression. We end in los angeles, where a 93yearold water main ruptured and flooded sunset boulevard near ucla. 75,000 gallons of water a minute shot as high as 30 feet into the air and ripped a 15 foot hole in the road. Hundreds of cars and six buildings on uclas campus were damaged and firefighters had to rescue five people from an underground parking structure. It will take days to repair the leak after discovering more damage in surrounding pipes. Thats whats happening around the world. Ukraine says prorussian separatists are placing land mines around the area of the mh17 site. Tune of more than 100 million in ransom money is being spent to get hostages our social media producer, hermela aregawi. Whats trending hermella . Join the conversation on twitter ajconsiderthis and on our facebook and google plus pages. Al Jazeera America presents a Breakthrough Television event. Borderland. Six strangers. Lets just send them back to mexico. Experience illegal immigration up close and personal. Its overwhelming to see this many people that have perished. Lost lives are relived. All of these people shouldnt be dead. Will there differences bring them together or tear them apart . The only way to find out is to see it yourselves. Which side of the fence are you on . Borderland, sunday at 9 eastern, only on al Jazeera America. Ukr