And 13 from. Clear the Champions League. From Fife. I.x. . I. See. This. All night apparently a majority of British travelers don't care about. 55 percent of those responding to the post office has. Said that we hadn't really contributed to their choice of holiday destination. Quests for Japanese yen we're up over 30 percent year on year everything to do with the Rugby World Cup Still it's not just British tourists in search of a different kind of holiday the Lonely Planet. Ranked as a 2nd best country to visit behind. The only place with a populace. We could only get things but perfect. Well yesterday on the program we heard about a Quantas plane which took just over 99 ers to fly from New York to Sydney record and that Qantas flew it as a ton of a test to find out whether it can really start nonstop flights between New York and Sydney and in listed the help of university researchers to wire up the crew and find out how such long flights affected them in particular Ben moved some of our as a senior aviation had a time travel website the points guy and he spoke to a Paul might just after landing just certainly wouldn't be confused with any normal long flight that a passenger might be on for starters there are only 49 people on the plane and that includes the pilots the flight attendants working out so we had a lot of space on the plane it was a fairly civilized experience I know a lot of people on magine being stuck in the in the last row of economy in such a flight but that wasn't the case here it was a test flight but that said let me tell you 1000 hours and 60 Minutes is the Dorrance test that matter how nice or spacious your seating area as well the airline did various things to try to make people's trip better and clean of course getting Mike's life flat sheet but also serving meals on a Sydney timetable and giving them a little exercise breaks a doctor back to Robin's from Brigham and Women's Hospital and Harvard Medical School as a sleep research on Dr Romans joins us hello. Good morning or good evening our data is so it's a confused time but when when you read about this I'm sure the I mean they're like what I do the way that they try everything I make sure that people got kind of organized sleep. Ben seems to say it still felt like an awfully long flight but other sorts of approaches likely to bear fruit I mean as a something that that we're going to see in the future with these ultra long flights it's a really good question and I certainly commend that airline for their focus on sleep and partnering with researchers to try to optimize the sleep experience for their travelers as best as they can but I will note that we are operating against our physiology as we cross multiple time zones so rapidly as we're able to with plane travel. You know matter what it will be a challenge to to get good sleep in the air or the on the ground after changing because it does take time on our sleep as a product of simply the time that we've spent awake since the last time we woke up but but it's also based on 24 hour circadian rhythm of sleep and wake cycles that take time to change and rapid changes can be abrupt we have a very regular contributor here by the name of. Dr Karl crucial minutes and he is a regular flyer from Australia to England at least he's become so and he says. He always claims that he never guessed and he says he is he goes in a big sea and he takes lots of melatonin and really a lot of melatonin and they never drinks and he eats very very lightly on the flight so as not his system under any kind of extra stress at all is he on the right track do you think I mean can it really I actually say I never get jet lag. Well that is very impressive I I would be interested in hearing more about his his sleep cycle and maybe disruptions when he does arrive but it does sound like he's doing some some things right now you touched on a couple things alcohol and limiting in intake of food during the flight now it's tempting on international flights to indulge in. You know the wine or the beer that's been offered complimentary but unfortunately those can exacerbate our experience of jet lag and limit tremendously the sleep quality that we will be able to get on the plane so we often do recommend that we avoid alcohol as your contributor does and also limit food intake in those strategies can help reduce the the negative effects of jet lag one of the strongest inputs to our circadian rhythm in that the conversation earlier you know that the contributing factors to our sleep is sunlight so of course it is hard to emulate that on a plane however from what I've read it does appear that this airline is making some strides to provide a sun like light like exposure to their air travelers which is another step in the right direction however I will note your contributor if he is taking excessive amounts of melatonin that is something that we might discourage a small dose of melatonin really goes a long way we don't reckon that much more than 2 and a half or 5 milligrams. Billy Graham's right tell about so the light thing is really interesting is that because some airlines something about Virgin on the long haul they actually change the lighting scheme in the cabin so they change it to often you know a very kind of soft red or a soft blue when the passengers are encouraged to try to get some sleep but it's got to help. Absolutely because life again is the strongest the term is I gave birth in German for life giver and the strongest is I give birth to our circadian cycle so that's why if you or I even after a night have a shortened sleep if you walk out into the bright sunlight it often feels like you've had 2 shots of the stressed out without the jittery side effects because of strong input the circadian rhythm is actually housed right behind the eyeball so that sunlight goes into that neural basis of our circadian rhythm to kick start the Awake phase so whether it's an airline our travelers who are listening are able to walk outside in their new destination and expose themselves to natural sunlight as they walk around or visit different tourist attractions that cetera that would be a really great strategy to help combat some of the negative effects of jet lag and shift ideally to the new time zone shift Yes I think that's another daughter Carl's great strategy as he gets off the plane then he goes for a walk so that's brilliant yes you have hope there in the sunlight in terms of of our night shift workers when you you know you may or may not be going anywhere but you're very aware of your circadian rhythm aren't you is there is there any new research coming along you know that helps people kind of move their circadian rhythm when you have to get some sleep during the day. Such a good point we have a lot of people living here in. Boston and I'm sure there in the u.k. Who are almost they emulate their working conditions often emulate almost kind of jetlag imposed stay which is night shift work or rotating shift work and these occupational categories are crucial and they often are individuals who are staffing our hospitals are serving public safety roles so vital for society and they play just a critical role but their sleep does suffer for the reasons we've discussed the circadian rhythm and then portions of light exposure at opportune times so light exposure to the sun in the morning can in you know make us more alert and then it night the absence of light of course is what causes us to become sleepy now shift workers work at a time that's mismatched with the light in their environment there are a couple behavioral tips and strategies that can help limiting bright light exposure over the course of this shift and trying to find other lower the lights or change the light bulbs in the workplace for shift workers to be a warmer Hugh because that the cooler hues the brights the yellows are more learning whereas the warmer hues that are red and orange can be more soothing and relaxing another good strategy of course is to avoid caffeine having a coffee at the beginning of a night shift is great but avoiding caffeine later in the shift just as a day worker would do now lastly this might sound silly but wearing sunglasses on your way home if you're on the way home and it's light in your environment trying to kind of trick your circadian rhythm to think that you're secure powering down and avoiding the light exposure so Sunglasses can help during your commute and then blackout curtains once you get home to slip into a cool dark room so you can helpfully get as much consolidated sleep as possible. I had a producer who insisted order where his or her way home. Was. It was quite successful though the Romans thank you thank you very much indeed thank you for having me. Britain's worst nuclear accident happened more than 60 years ago in the north of England Tobar 957 a reactor at the Windscale nuclear plant Sellafield was overheating and workers were rushed in to help in trying to live in the B.B.C.'s Chris flower spoke to Vic good when I'm John Harris 2 of the man who helped bring things under control during the accident for b.b.c. Witness is the 10th of October 957 John Harris a young researcher is on his way to work at the Windscale nuclear plant in northwest England I used to going in the morning on the factory bus as we all did our going in and as you can within about a mile of the of the plant you can see those 2 tall sort of strange looking chimney standing up with a little sort of head on the top the strange thing was somebody said hey there's something odd going on because you could see a very fine drift of sort of blue smoke or was a blue pale colored smoke just drifting off the top of one of these 400 feet tall chimneys and out point was these were chimneys and you should never be able to see anything coming out of the top because all they did what they would did was to conduct the cooling air away from the reactor and up into the atmosphere but now we could see smoke so there was something wrong but the bus carried on went into the plant worked for the day keeping all the doors and windows shut which were told to went home those responsible for monitoring the reactor were also aware that something was going wrong a young physicist and trainee Vic Goodwin was one of the 1st to raise the alarm the reactor was overheating I was sufficiently concerned to contact the manager who was down at the other end of the site to tell him that I thought we had water in those days was called a bad burst that was a quick way of saying that there was damage to feel and it was releasing activity within the reactor Can you remember watch what what you felt everywhere you were anxious when you realized there is a serious problem here. I think the driving thing then was to try to understand initially what was happening what was producing the heat we were. Able to see what was happening by looking down various holes at the back of the parle. We could then see small flames rather like the little gas flames on the gas cooker not great. But small neat looking cone use of. Gas and so men will go out in to start trying to remove the fuel that was obviously not burning one of those called back into work that evening was John Harris you don't you just go back to the hostel in the nearby village of Seascale where many Windscale workers were based got home a car was sent for me when you come in we're looking for volunteers I got in the car off I went I got to the reactor I was immediately told 'd to go up onto the top face of the reactor and that meant I was in a big shed with about 10 feet of concrete between me and the reactor which would burning underneath and my job was to monitor temperatures at various points in the reactor the world arrangements for doing that up up on the top of the reactor and I sat there all night with a graph paper and a pod not not in down numbers and occasionally picking up the phone and reading the people in the sort of center of the emergency control room if you like to tell them what the temperatures were reading in spite of the seriousness of the situation Goodwin's memories are of an airy sense of calm was there and it was there an air an atmosphere of panic there at the time was there an atmosphere of crisis. It was certainly a crisis the people involved on the part were all buckling to and doing their best and. Being so occupied and preoccupied there was I think no opportunity for people to panic it was safety a concern while you were working in a reactor that was on fire were you conscious of taking risks that this might be personally dangerous. The whole thing was almost. Bizarre everything was very quiet the plants to look to perfect one could go about the corridors and they were just as clean and tidy as they had the in and so there was I think no sense of some impending disaster or whatever and no sense that you were personally in danger well the only sure that one could immediate danger that one could see was that of radiation and that was really measured we all carried a small detectors which could be looked at at any moment we knew where the sources of radiation. So that safety in that respect was very much in our own hands. It was now the early hours of the morning and they still hadn't put out the fire finally the decision was taken to use water it was a strategy fraught with danger I got my water injection to put into places where it seemed best to get a big douche of water down into the reactor and that was all connected up with conventional far hoses then 2 engine outside must have thought Gosh I hope really hope this works there was concern in the course because one can. Generate hydrogen So yes there was a risk involved the danger was in doing this the reactor was a had a lot of graphite in it was graphite and you Raney you know graphite is carbon by another name burning carbon passing water or steam or burning carbon is one way of producing 3 gosh for distributing through the Gulf system you know so what they were doing was possibly creating a very explosive situation a worrying situation particularly for John Harris who spent the night working on top of the reactor when it about 10 o'clock in the following morning I was still up there and dying to get someone to come and relieve me I had gotten a phone somebody wrenchingly came they took me out of from the top of the reactor by most strange roundabout route which in fact was that way because we had to avoid the areas where some of this water had come out this radioactive water which when pumped through that it was coming out and sort of in should lead me my circuitous way out onto the grass outside and even some of the grass was contaminated it was all railed off temporarily and so on by about 10 o'clock that morning so are you was involved in the sense directly if it had gone up with a great big bang it would have gone with me I suppose but there will by midday on October the 11th the fire was out but it took another day before news was broadcast in the British media with no mention of fun this is the b.b.c. . It is the want to talk to you. It's all make energy all sort of have announced the some new radio cartridges in the center of an atomic pilot Windscale came over here yesterday. Just how do you have set the started when the scale I know reducing the temperature of the pile with the events that when scale resulted in Britain's worst nuclear accident despite this experience early in their working lives both John Harris and Vic Goodwin believe in the promise of nuclear power and think its risks must be kept in proportion I think the world will want all sources of power. Does mean you can keep warm in the winter and cool in the summer and all the rest of it engineering technical development does seem very much a trial and error process I'm afraid but it seems worthwhile keeping going and a nuclear power is yes another one of these very valuable sources of energy. John Haas and the big good women who worked at when scale were speaking to the B.B.C.'s Chris valance of course you remember how the b.b.c. Sounded in 1957 well while breaks it on the relationship between the Princes William and Hyde dominate the front pages of the newspapers there's a very different story on the front of the f.t. The Financial Times I've been hearing about it from Fred stood him and this is a rum story really Rod It's basically a Russian spy but espionage unit has been found to be hacking a group of away me and hackers. Just sort of to talk to repeat that the hackers have been found to be hacking hackers. So this is tight taking into a very sort of dark nebulous part of a spear Mahler's in the whole realm of cyberspace and this was apparently according to a joint u.k. And u.s. Investigation by cyber security agencies here in Britain and over in America what they've uncovered is that this was a means of leading attacks in more than 35 countries most was carried out they say by a group known as the Tugela group which has links to Russian intelligence and allegedly they hijacked the tools of a group called oil rig load the names that they will choose which in turn is a group that linked to terror and it's said that this or a new group was actually I'm probably unaware that its own hacking methods had themselves been compromised and deployed by another fiber espionage team. And the victims of these attacks are said to be military establishment government departments scientific groups and universities across the world but mainly in the Middle East and in the realm of understated. Paul Chichester is director of the U.K.'s National Cybersecurity some to describe this all added to quite the sense of confusion around. The whole area of State backside the groups and they've said so the agencies that are on come of this that they put this out in the public domain partly because they want to sort of publicize it and show this is what's actually going on but also among others to be able to understand what's going on and maybe also give some added intelligence if you like but it is this is why I don't have clarity right so I will bring quite alarming. Absolutely but it lets us see that in in Chelton Omar or in Dulles or wherever it is somewhere they've got the tools to figure out what's been going on between these 2 groups you know $11.00 Russian and one apparently Iranian backed it is I mean it's showing off too isn't perhaps yes and extraordinary as you say I mean it gives you a little insight into a world where you know there's been masses of speculation lots of claims about influence from hacking groups and then counter claims and denials I mean we've had President Vladimir Putin gave an interview to the f.t. Indeed over the summer way he was forced to deny. The claims that there be orchestrated attempts coming from Moscow to influence them the 2016 u.s. Presidential election but the mean to be many such allegations and stories and so much but you know often we don't give us a little insight into to more of the detail what is actually really supposedly really going on I mean this is what we're being told by investigators. Well the Prime Minister didn't get as many for a vote but that he was told by the speaker of the House of Commons that this was just going over old ground absolutely but super Saturday turned out to be a bit of a damp squid whatever was going to be I don't know the let's ration was. Going to be manic Monday or whatever leading on to say but. Slight bit of more positive. Potentially for the prime minister in that we're reporting that. You know possibly it looks as though he may well the prime minister may well have the numbers to get. Past the commons by about 320 to 350 votes when it votes in so-called in principle on the 2nd reading of the bill when that comes. Broadly speaking a little bit of. Confidence in Number 10 that they could still to kill the bucks a bill unli