A hearse carrying pele� s coffin makes the journey from sao paulo to santos where the Brazilian Football legend will lie in state when i was 15, i wasjust discovering the joys of hip hop and Dreaming Of Playing Cricket for england. At the same age, Greta Thunberg launched an International Movement by skipping school. Shes not a politician or a scientist, nor is she the first to campaign against climate change. At school, she was bullied for years, before being diagnosed with asperger� s syndrome. But in 2018, this swedish schoolgirl found herself hailed as the unlikely voice of global youth. Shes become the symbol of a generation, which, as she puts it, is not being listened to by older people, who wont suffer the consequences of not listening. Whether you admire her or despair of her, Greta Thunbergs influence has already been profound. And shes still a teenager. In 2015, the eu and nearly 200 countries signed the Paris Agreement, attempting to limit the global temperature increase this century to 1. 5 degrees celsius. Greta thunberg has pleaded, reasoned and raged in the faces of World Leaders to keep their promises. You all come to us, young people for hope. How dare you . In doing so, she has become a modern icon to some, and an alarmist pariah to others. She has graced Magazine Covers and is mobbed like a rock star. While politicians and celebrities align themselves with her, to signal their green credentials, and opponents regularly send her family death threats. Shes now created a book of essays, written by her and over 100 experts by way of a toolkit for those concerned about climate change. At 19, Greta Thunberg is no longer the young Schoolgirl Bursting onto the world stage. So how does she plan to get her message across . And will anybody still listen . And as an adult, what Practical Solutions can she offer to back up her demands for the planet . I want to understand how she got here, but also explore her plans for the future, both hers and ours. Greta, thank you so much for talking to the bbc. Ive read your book. I mean, this is a major contribution to debates both about the science and the politics of global warming, you know, its notjust something that focuses on what the science says, it comes up with a lot of recommendations for how to go forward. What was your Guiding Principle when you chose the authors, when you selected who would contribute . I often get, like, asked, do you have any recommendations for things i can read and things i can watch, because i dont know much about the Climate Crisis, but i want to learn. I want to get involved. And then i could send people, like, a long list, like, you can read this book, which talks about this, and then you can read this, which covers this and so on. But there was never Something Like this covers, like, a broader perspective. So i wanted to create that, because its very hard to navigate around everything there is on the Climate Crisis today. One of the ideas behind the book, one of the motivations, that youre moving beyond protests, which is still a big part of what you do, but youre moving into the world of practical policies. Because that seems, to me, a big part of what the book is about. I guess you can do different interpretations of that. The biggest project is educational material and spread awareness. When i started school striking, it wasnt, of course, it was also meant as a kind of protest, but also about spreading information, because i had flyers that i handed out with people with facts i had collected. But the protests idea of it was more resonating with people. I want to talk a little bit about how you got into all this, because i think most people dont know very much about your childhood, and a lot of people wont know that you had depression for many years, and for nearly three years you didnt say very much, you were selectively mute, i think, so you missed a lot of school. Yeah. Severely depressed. Do you know what prompted all of that . It was many different things, but, like, i think i wasjust depressed about the state of the world in general, which, and, yeah, it feltjust meaningless. A lot of people listening to you, who maybe have had Mental Health problems, childhood Mental Health problems, depression, will be interested in what helped you recover. I think the main thing was that ifound something that i was passionate about. Because today it feels like so many people lack a Sense Of Purpose and meaning in their life. Were just all going around in this hamster wheel, trying to make money, get likes on social media, whatever. And, of course, that doesnt make you happy. But, yeah, i and many others found purpose in this fight for Climate Justice, because i feel like im doing something that means something, thats meaningful. The book goes into a lot of detail about solutions and practical policies, and i want to i want to explore some of your views on some of these complex policy issues, where you do have to make choices, and governments do have to make choices. I. Pretty much never go into specific things, to talk about, because that would distract from the crisis itself. Why do you not get into specific policies . Because you have, as well come on to, you have said that youre an opponent of nuclear policy. You have you advocate. No. Have you not . Laughs. I mean, ive said. Well, i just try to stay away from those things as much as possible. Would they distract from the crisis . It does. I mean, isnt the whole point of politics, especially with your platform, that you do have to encourage people to choose . You know, that you do have to say, take a position on these things. I mean, if you want to solve the Climate Crisis as a citizen, or as a citizen who votes, or as a government, you do need to make choices. When we talk about, for example, nuclear power. Yeah. That is something that is being used a lot by people to distract, because its something that people feel so strongly about. So when you talk about it, itjust everyone just runs to it, and forget everything around it. But isnt it part of the mix of a green agenda . First of all, i think when we talk about this, it seems like this is one Silver Bullet that will solve everything. First of all, our Energy Related emissions arent all of our emissions. Second of all, if we were to build to replace our current fossil fuel generated energy with nuclear power, we dont have the time to do that, because our c02 budget runs out in less than a decade at current emissions. Carbon budgets limit the amount of Greenhouse Gases a particular country can produce between now and 2050, which is the Paris Agreement� s deadline for net zero. The point at which no new Greenhouse Gases should be added to the atmosphere. This government, i can hear them now, you know, in interviews i do, of them, saying, you know, weve got an ambitious plan for net zero by 2050. There is a range of different stuff that weve got to do to hit that plan. Nuclear is part of it. And on that part of it, isnt it reasonable to say that activists should say, do they support it or not . People can do that if they want to. Ifido it. It� s people. People get stuck on that thing. The fact that greta supported it. Right. Yeah. 0r hasnt supported it. Yeah. Right. Im sure that if we air this and i talk about nuclear power, people will focus only on that. Do you take a similar approach to other issues, where. Not the debate isnt settled, but divisive issues, shale gas and fracking . Shale gas and fracking, joe biden would say, when i hear climate change, im thinking, jobs, jobs, jobs. Laughs. Sorry did i Say Something . Laughs. Jobs, jobs, jobs no, its an internaljoke i wasjust channelling joe biden why is that funny . Is that translated to Something Weird in swedish . You just dont believe it . Whats the internaljoke . Me and some friends, we say that sometimes and its really funny. Jobs, jobs, jobs, 0k. Thats what arguably the most powerful man in the world says when people start putting to him the case for shale gas and fracking. So thatll create jobs, jobs, jobs here. Thatll create jobs, jobs, jobs there. Its going to reduce our reliance on the middle east for oil and on russia for gas. And that, again, as part of the mix of getting to net zero by 2050, theres renewables, theres nuclear, and shale gas is part of the mix. Do you respond to that by saying, im not going to take a viewjust because, you know, that would be a distraction . No. Imean. Doesnt there come a point where you have to take a view . Do you have a view, personally . I dont think that shale gas and fracking is a transitioning solution, because, i mean, it locks us further into a fossil dependency. I think we need to move towards real renewable energy. And i feel that its greenwashing. To say that we are less dependent on importing fossil fuels from other countries by producing it yourself, is not really a very thought through thing to do, i think. One thing that you recommend in the book is free local transport. As i write, its one of the most low hanging fruits. And just the fact that that hasnt even been done says a lot about our emissions. How would you pay for it . I mean, imjust thinking, in this country, weve just spent £400 billion on the pandemic. Theres a Cost Of Living crisis. Thats exactly why i dont focus on specific issues. Laughs. Tell me, why . Because then we get stuck on these things, instead of focusing on the crisis itself. But doesnt that leave you exposed to the argument that, by talking only about the broad principle, and trying to change the story, the public narrative on climate change, that youre not prepared to, as it were, get your hands dirty in the real, practical Policy Solutions . I mean, first of all, i am a teenager. If your house was on fire, would you start arguing about whether to turn off the oven or not . Yeah, you might. You might talk about a range of different things. The metaphor being here, shale gas is one, renewables is another. If you first havent realised that your house is on fire, once we actually treat it as an emergency, we will talk about every possible detail. But until we are, we are doing that, its distracting to talk about these individual, specific issues. I want to talk about the second paragraph of your introduction, which, i think, thats not a test, you dont have to memorise it. Im gonna read it to you, dont worry but i think the second paragraph of your introduction crystallises, really, one of the central arguments of the book, because it attacks the idea of compromise. And you write, there are no black and white issues in life, no categorical answers, everything is a subject for endless debate and compromise. This is one of the Core Principles of our current society, a society which, when it comes to sustainability, has a lot to answer for, because that core principle is wrong. Why is compromise wrong . It is not compromise itself that is wrong. Its very oversimplified to say that everything is black and white of course thats not the case, its a metaphor. For example, the Paris Agreement is one big compromise and that is what we are constantly referring back to. If we are to stay in line with the 1. 5 degree target, we dont have time for the small steps in the right direction, we dont have time to reach net zero 2050, which is a big compromise. When it comes to the climate emergency, winning slowly is the same thing as losing. We cant really compromise with the Laws Of Physics and thats kind of the idea. Either we go on as a civilisation, or we dont. Build back better, blah, blah, blah. Green economy, blah, blah, blah. Net zero by 2050, blah, blah, blah. Net zero, blah, blah, blah. Climate neutral, blah, blah, blah. There are people who say, looking at what youve done over the past four years, that one of the dangers of your approach to politics is you create a cynicism about politicians. Glad you are laughing because not what the politicians are laughing. I mean, people say that, the thing about Greta Thunberg is that she makes people think that all politicians are rubbish, useless, blah, blah, blah. Yeah. What do you say to that . One third of our anthropogenic Co2 Emissions have been emitted since 2005. Thats then the progress, they said, should not be dismissed as a blah, blah, blah. Of course, all of politicians are not evil. I have never said that, i dont understand where that comes from. There are many who are trying, but overall, the people who are in power have been moving us in the wrong direction. Would you ever go into politics . I dont want to why . Dont you feel an obligation, a duty . I mean, first of all, i dont want to. Laughs. Because it feels like that world is so toxic. But also, the main reason is, as it is now, the changes necessary will only come if there is enough public pressure from the outside. And that is something that we create outside on the streets. It feels to me that the focus of your campaigning has subtly, but significantly changed from an earlier emphasis on listen to the science, which you obviously still say a lot of, but to something else, which is climatejustice. Hmm. But what is Climate Justice . The people who are affected today are the ones who have done the absolute least to cause it, and therefore we have an obligation to act, to minimise the damages that are being caused. Climate justice is everything, because in countries like mine, in sweden, i can imagine the uk as well, people say, i mean, you dont have to worry, you will be fine. We have. We can just turn up the air conditioning, turn on our sprinklers and we will be fine. And that might be true, that some of us might initially be able to adapt somewhat to a rapidly, like, warming world. But for many of my own friends, that will not be the case. Let me put this in human terms. My dad died a few months ago and, you know, he had a very big family we have a very big family in india. He was one of 11 siblings. My mum needs to go and meet his siblings and, therefore, fly to india. Yeah. My mum, shes in her 70s and shes a wonderful person, shes not going to get the train to india. No that would be. That would be that would be weird. I dont think of my mum as privileged, but would it be right to say that, you know, people who follow you and follow your activism could infer from what youre saying that my mum shouldnt fly . No, i mean, i have neversaid that people should stop flying. I have never said that. I think that we need to move away from focusing on individual actions and what individuals do and so on, because we need we need to focus on the bigger picture. Of course, stop flying is a way of activism to, like, send a message to people around you that we need to do something about this. Thats why i stopped flying. I didnt stop flying and i didnt sail across the atlantic twice to lower my carbon footprint. It was to create a debate around itand it, yeah, it succeeded, i guess. It worked. People seem to see me as an angry teenager who condemns every individual� s behaviour, which is kind of funny to me. Giggles. And youre not that person . No giggles. Whats the difference between that person and who you really are . Theres a big difference, erm, yeah. Im not an angry teenager. Yeah, iam i probably dont take life seriously enough, like in private, yeah. Dont you find it weird, then, that you have this reputation for being. . Yeah, it is really funny, actually. You find it funny because why . Itjust seems so untrue to you . Yeah, yeah. And i think the people i care about, who i meet, they know that its not me. And if i meet people personally, they can see that im not angry. You ever reflecting quiet moments aboutjust how unlikely your story is . Yeah. I mean, youre this, for three years or more, largely mute, bullied schoolgirl. You end up being the voice of a generation. Its a very unlikely journey, isnt it . It is, yes. One thing that you have described as your superpower is asperger� s. Do you mind just explaining what that is to people who dont know asperger� s syndrome . Youre on the autism spectrum. Its, like, a diagnosis. It means that you work a bit differently. You are a bit sensitive to things that others arent. You cant, erm. Sometimes, you cant function in the same ways as others. Describing it only as a superpower is misleading because some people because many people are very limited by it because under the wrong circumstances, it can definitely hold you back if you if you have to play on the same terms as everyone else, as is the Current Situation for most people. But in some ways, its something that allows you to be to do things that others cant. Like . For example, if you are really interested in something and if you you can have a very intense focus on something, you can be really determined, erm, to fulfil something. Was there a moment in those early weeks where you realised that this was going to be big . Where you maybe are texting your friends and saying, suddenly, weve got interest from the national media, suddenly, global media. Suddenly, im on the front of this newspaper, or whatever. Did you think, im actually starting something here . It must be very exciting. I dont know, because in sweden, people rarely stop you on the streets. Whats the word for that again . Jantelagen. It was like, no one is worth more than others. We dont like, we leave you alone, kind of. But when i started to go abroad, people started to recognise me and that was like that was strange. Do you like that attention at all . Imean, its. I dont enjoy it, no. No. I dont. No, i mean, its not something that pleases me, so to speak. The thing thats, like, most difficult is if people close to me or people i love, if they get harmed by it which, of course, is the case sometimes. How . For example, if people come home to my house and like, uninvited, and stuff like that. Be