Its the most visible sign so far that the health of the nation is once again at risk. Steve richards, a quarter of the uk population is either under additional restrictions will be by the end of this weekend. Is that a sense that the government has lost control of this virus, or was it a lwa ys control of this virus, or was it always that we were going to find ourselves in this situation, the turn of awesome and eventually the potential health risks in the winter . A bit of both. The autumn was always going to be a challenge and one of the more bizarre sequences of recent days was some officials and ministers expressing surprise that the autumn was going to be such a challenge. They have lost control in the sense that testing is still nowhere near as extensive as it should be to give one example. London is now, you know, obviously, the biggest Population Centre in the uk. Mas says he thinks its raging but we dont know for sure because there is inadequate testing for london. So theyve lost control in that sense, but it was inevitable, too, that it would have occur once the summer was out of the way and schools were back and universities were back. That it would recur. They have also lost control of the messaging. I think this last week has been bizarre. You began with the two Senior Scientist presenting a very bleak picture and then borisjohnson presenting a very bleak picture and then Boris Johnson pops presenting a very bleak picture and then borisjohnson pops up to say pubs will have to close an hour early. It was a sort of bizarre, almost darkly comical response to the context set the day before, and then you have a cancer or chancellors saying we need to live with the fear and not in fact investing enough to protectjobs which is usuallyjeopardised at the moment. Mack, in terms of the challenge that the uk and indeed governments all around the world face, vast sums of public money being spent to try and protect people from the risks of infection, encouraging a whole change in the way peoples day to day lives are operated, and get some unanswerable things that cannot be solved simply by money, not least the search for a vaccine. However it balancing these challenges . Well, its interesting just listening to steve there. This also desire to appear in control which is quite understandable in a democratic system, it leads governments into taking all sorts of arbitrary steps, some of which there is no real scientific basis for and lam is no real scientific basis for and i am wondering looking as we are going into this new surge of coronavirus really how many of those takes we saw in the first wave survive. You know, is it really anything to do with the complexion of the government, you know, centre left sprains by rocketing, libertarianjohnsons centre left sprains by rocketing, libertarian johnsons government also not looking in a great place, france also ce ntre left, centre right, what are they these days . And the sort of impacts that government policy can make, i really wonder whether they are just on the margins are based on whether the underlying epidemic factors are the real key drivers population density, social custom. I was talking to an expert at the robert clock institute in berlin who said that as a whole balance of epidemiology we dont really have about how close people get to one another when they speak, how loud they speak a different cultures, various biological factors, things they have been exposed to in different years that other countries might not. There are so other countries might not. There are so many elements to this bullet or puzzle that are scientific rather than political but we all seem to wa nt than political but we all seem to want political answers to the situation we find ourselves in. And, in some ways, political answers contribute to their health challenge. Anthony fancy the us expert who was highly respected and in charge of the Us Government Tax Task Force on this. He said we are not getting in the us a second waving infections, we are still living with the first wave because the numbers were not sufficiently suppressed. And in a country where political power is so diverse and dispersed between states and the federal government, isnt that inevitable . I think some of it is inevitable. Anthony found she has been saying for months that we are still in the first wave and he has a specific case to america as the expert which has a quasi governmental role which is completely sidelined now because he disagrees with the administration of Donald Trumps approach, or rather non approach, to dealing with the crisis. It is interesting to pick up oii crisis. It is interesting to pick up on what mark was saying. You know, pa rt of on what mark was saying. You know, part of it is to do with how society has evolved, particularly in the really ha rd has evolved, particularly in the really hard for it, we used to be called first world, g7, gs economies. We expect everything instantly. We expect our gratification instantly. We want our solutions to a completely new illness illness instantly and that makes, you know, the governments job slightly more difficult, but it also doesnt have to do with the great geographical spread, sean. You asked me about this huge size of america, there were so many Different Levels of government, but just in madrid, for example, the National Government ins bain once madrid to lock down. Its a tightly packed urban area. The Central Government is left wing. The madrid government, the metropolitan government, the metropolitan government is right wing and says no, we cant afford this, we cant afford to lockdown again, so they are butting heads. We have got this terrible coming together of incompatible streams of thought. One is the classification, lets get this salt right away, governments can do it. Governments are not used to agreeing with one another these days because we live in times of hyper polarisation, and then there is the science part and it is still, we have to remind ourselves all the time, it is a new thing, the coronavirus, it is called novel because it is new, and scientists are still trying to figure out exactly how it works and consequently the best ways to prevent it spreading, you know, rapidly. Steve, michael raises a very interesting point about this degree of perhaps public scepticism about perhaps some of the rules, whether you are in madrid orfor example in israel where we are seeing political disputes over whether or not this second lockdown can be justified and whether or not this second lockdown can bejustified and can be sustained when people are told they had no more than i think it is a kilometre from their homes. A second way for those countries who may be experiencing it, isnt it . That having kind of bought the argument is the first time round, will they buy then the second time round . This is where politics and leadership to play a part. Of course, in the end, they are even three this is via the science as michael suggests. This is new, and therefore the science is still adapting. But leadership is about clarity of message. As much as is possible and obviously it is going to change, i dont blame the government for changing its message asa government for changing its message as a step, adapts to changing circumstances, but there has to be a clarity of message and strategy. Actually, polls polls suggest that most people are willing in this country anyway to accept further constraints if the government explains theyre doing it to keep them safe and can show why they are doing it so i think the politics are as unimportant a dimension, actually, as the science and to give one other example to name an unlikely quartet, conservatives like William Hague and jeremy hunt and former labour prime ministers Tony Blairand former labour prime ministers tony blair and gordon brown have from i think about may of this year have been calling for a ramping up of testing, a big politicalfigure in charge of the department solely responsible for this, with clear lines of accountability, and instead you have polling of leaders and nothing happens, contact signed, nothing happens, contact signed, nothing happens, contact signed, nothing happens, different agencies of the love and that factoring of delivery is, of course, an issue which is deeply political. Different agencies involved and that fracturing of delivery. Just alas those on this. Do you think that perhaps is the Southern Hemisphere looks forward to some easing of infections offended some of the things that come is there anything they can learn from the northern hemispheres experience during the summer of may be how not to do it to buy themselves some time before winter returns in 2021 . That to me is obvious, isnt it . Do not work on the assumption that when infection rates fall, they are not going to start rising again when people spend more time indoors and to prepare during the lull for that increase before we get, hopefully, some kind of vaccine. We leave it there. Thanks very much. Now, do you remember Merrick Garland . In march 2016, six months before the president ial election, barack 0bama nominated judge garland to fill the vacant seat on the supreme court. Mitch mcconnell, then as now leader of the majority in the senate, said republicans would not cooperate because the vacancy should be filled by whoever the people chose as their next president that november, and thats what happened. This weekend, just over a month before the president ial election, donald trump is nominating a successor to ruth bader ginsberg, who died a week ago. Republicans, including senator mcconnell, think thats just fine. Michael, should they . Should they . Should they . Look, if youre going to hold the Republican Party to some kind of consistency and say, oh were going to achieve hue of hypocrisy you and about to get very far. Accuse you of hypocrisy. The Republican Party exist to exert power and you have to say that they are very, very good at it whether they actually have a majority or not. They exercise power when they dont have a majority, they exercise power to present the party with the majority, the democrats from doing what they want to do, and when they do have power and when they do have a majority theyjust ran through, just ran through their programme. Now, historically, this represents, in many ways, the culmination of at least four decade long struggle to gain absolute control of the supreme court. Initially, it was in the hopes of overturning the decision in roe v wade about abortion but it is of course a wide range of issues iiow. Of course a wide range of issues now. Donald trump does deliver for his voters. There is no doubt about it. He has reshaped the federal bench at the lower level with right wing justices, and there is no reason to think that Mitch Mcconnell, who is the leader, the republican leader in the senate, wont try and put this all the way through. It usually takes four to six weeks to begin to gather all of the material bedding material to hold hearings in full to six weeks we are going to have the election. Will this carry on after the election . Yet, could do. So what we are looking at is the courts which is meant to be to the side of politics has become arguably the most politicised aspect of american governance now and it will be the hot button issue the rest of the way in this campaign. Mac, itss fair to say, isnt it, that not only does the political kind of authority of the political kind of authority of the president continue even if he loses the election in november because he is in office until the end of january and because he is in office until the end ofjanuary and so is because he is in office until the end of january and so is the existing congress that they had the power to do this, there is no question, but isnt what the republicans are proposing now really not so different from what 0bama wouldnt have liked to have done four years ago if he had been able to do it which is the place a justice with a different philosophy with one more suited to his outlook . Well, itss interesting because democrats present president obamas actions at the time in terms of obeying a convention of the rules of the game and, in fact, thats the whole appeal of trump to his bases his transgressive quality in terms of businesses in washington circles it isa of businesses in washington circles it is a no brainer for him to be forward leaning, to put his candidate forward, to share this michael said that he is going to reshape the bench at the highest level here and hes not afraid to do so, you know, weeks away from an election. And yes, youre right, when the election is gone, even assuming that these doubts he cast this week on that he might not acce pt this week on that he might not accept the result, even assuming that this is all hot air and he will acce pt that this is all hot air and he will accept the process, he will still have months to accept the way in which the situation washington is wrong and you know, i have to say, i was thinking as i was having michael back ten or 15 years when i was covering. Bill in places like iraq and afghanistan and, you know, meetings in dusty places with retired military officers who were trying to bring about certain solutions, and a lot of them ended up solutions, and a lot of them ended up concluding that the rule of law was actually more important than elections in defining the quality of democracy. And, you know, one place with that at 1s peril, potentially. The criticism that the right has made traditionally of the Us Supreme Court and the court that existed particularly in the early 70s and mid 70s was that it was to activist, that it kind of reinterpreted the constitution to fit the contemporary political mores. What is the risk at the right ones if it pursues a nomination, the reports are as we are sitting here now, and this will be clear is that we can goes on that a judge who has deep religious views, is a catholic and has been critical of abortion, as opposed to abortion although she has also said that she wouldnt allow, is written in the past, she wouldnt allow her personal views to influence her judgments. What is the risk they run if they go ahead with that nomination in terms of kind of, as they would say it, pulling back the court away from the tilt it has had in recent past . The risk, as you imply, is the reverse of that perception in the 70s, but it will strengthen and reinforce the trump co re strengthen and reinforce the trump core vote, but will alienate or further alienate a potentially dangerous coalition which will be the democrats and disillusioned republicans who think that trump has gone too far and some of these social issues in the way he plays fast and loose with the rules. However, there is another side to this, i think, however, there is another side to this, ithink, which however, there is another side to this, i think, which is that trump, the one thing we know for sure is that trump will be president until january. We dont know what will happen in the november election and who will replace in them, and he is going to use every leave it available to him in that time to do what he wants, and, in a way, the democrat should take note about how you can use power and pull levers to get what you want but the this, clearly, is that it widens further the coalition of doubters and firm opponents against him. And what is the Political Risk that the democrats at this nomination proceeds because as you said, it is going to become something inevitably ofa going to become something inevitably of a kind of headline grabber potentially of these hearings that every day . You know, the thing about america, sean, is that we have been in this place. It has only been deepening but the essential divisions in society have been present, again, you have to go back 35 years. There was the infamous case of Robert Walker who Ronald Reagan appointed the court he was denied being seated by democrats and thenjustice denied being seated by democrats and then Justice Clarence thomas denied being seated by democrats and thenJustice Clarence thomas became another extraordinary difficult confirmation, he was confirmed, you know, but there is a ritualised. Ritualised approach to these confirmation hearings now. And i dont see it as having any impact at all in the upcoming election. I mean, i dont know what the democrats can do. I mean, Mitch Mcconnell is going to do everything in his power to get good ballot seated. We have assuming that that is he the nominee will be, but whoever the nominee is, they will be seated on the court, and what can the democrats do . Well, you can come out on the street in massive demonstrations. We have seen massive demonstrations. We have seen massive demonstrations before. At the heart ofan demonstrations before. At the heart of an election campaign, the polls have barely moved in months. No matter what happens, no matter how many more people die of covid, no matter that the baby ginsberg dies ina most matter that the baby ginsberg dies in a most inopportune moment. The polls remain a save. Joe biden remain seven to s . Donald trumps vote rs remain seven to s . Donald trumps voters will absolutely vote for him, those who want to them if you will absolutely come out to vote against him, they little is changing and curiously i dont think this is going to move the dial one way or another. To recapitulate what has been said, in the weeks after the election, and letters assume that we ta ke election, and letters assume that we take donald trump at his word, and we should, because the attorney general, who is the chiefjustice officer and whispers very closely into the president was 5 he is, you know, they are authoritarians, they will do what they can, they will move the wheels of power as much as they can to maintain their power and thatis they can to maintain their power and that is when the real arguments will start. And i dont think these ensuing weeks of hearings if we get hearings are really going to change much. 40 days to cut down might go and then we will be talking about it quite a lot i think in this programme, not just in quite a lot i think in this programme, notjust in the next month but beyond that too. Now, the opportunity for the Dateline Panel to bend your ear about a story thats been bugging them but which perhaps hasnt had the attention it deserves. Matt, sky start with you. Closer to home for the uk audience that a particular interest to europeans as well . Ya. In a sense this is a classic dateline story because it is something that generals are talking about but it is not really paving much on the surface of politics which is is the uk government about to fold in order to get a trade deal with are you having really upped the anti a few weeks ago with the internal market bill and seemingly been ready to override the withdrawal agreement, that divorce deal that they had already signed andindeed deal that they had already signed and indeed been elected to parliament on, all their conservative mps, their commitment to implement that withdrawal agreement, where they really going to do it . Now, some briefing that was going on in the last day to produce an article in the times yesterday by verve very well connected journalist suggesting that, well, this bill could be amended and pushed into the distance in orderto take amended and pushed into the distance in order to take the pressure off the negotiation, that, well, the government had thought about this and with a second wave of covid they didnt really want to be leaving the eu without a free trade agreement. Some venuesjust eu without a free trade agreement. Some venues just remit eu without a free trade agreement. Some venuesjust remit down might be used reaction from European Partners but also an offence, i think that they sense that there is possibly some truth in this for the idea that we are going to have a rupture in the ist of january we are going to have a rupture in the ist ofjanuary and leave going effectively from the Single Market and Customs Union to nothing now seems to be receding where theres even and very well connected pundits a couple of weeks ago were saying that it was above evens is a likelihood. That is an intriguing thought, isnt it, after all this sound about the possibility of breaking international law. Michael, a different part of the world but once again has rather dropped for many of the headlines but should still be something were thinking about and that is what is happening in the borders of syria and iraq and particularly turkey s actions. In the borders of syria and iraq and particularly turkey s actions. Yes, imean in particularly turkey s actions. Yes, i mean in the last couple of weeks the only thing new is coming at the middle east has been the talks between the uae and israel and establishing diplomatic relations and flights on trade in that sort of thing but, you know, every single day there is military action along the border between syria and turkey, iraq and turkey, last week. The United States launched a drone attack against alanda leaders there, and turkey has stepped up, nobodys paying attention. Turkey has stepped up activities against the kurdish group, the pkk, and we hear some pretty shocking reports about military action there, and, you know, we are coming into october and we talk about x toba surprises and we talk about x toba surprises and everybody has forgotten about syria but if they were to be some kind of International Incident in late august. October surprises. There was russian american kind of argy bargy along the there was russian american kind of argy bargy along the border, it could happen here and we really shouldnt take our eyes of the border between turkey, syria, and iraq. Yeah, i was very struck by a syrian in london telling me on friday that the government has now introduced a kind of bond that syrians who want to go back to the country have to pay to be allowed to go home. I think it can only be paid in us dollars because the government is desperate for hard currency and of course there is rationing as well of course there is rationing as well of essentials which is adding to the domestic pressure and it is getting very cold and very bitter at night for those who cant get across the border. Michael, thanks very much. Steve, very much a lighter note but something that shines a bit of light on what you might call uk culture. |j mean, everything is dark. A friend of mine the observer poll die told me that he watches the news all evening and it is so miserable that he puts on faulty towers and itches him up before he goes to bed and when he has watched two series event sta rts when he has watched two series event starts all over again. When he has watched two series event starts all overagain. It when he has watched two series event starts all over again. It cheers him up. John cleese tweeted this week that it is the 45th anniversary since the First Episode and he put a clip out of the First Episode which made me laugh out loud. I retweeted it and made me laugh out loud. I retweeted itandi made me laugh out loud. I retweeted it and i was amazed, i looked at my phone later on and there were hundreds of these retweets including people like the former Foreign Office minister Alistair Burt saying thank you john cleese, you are a comic genius and so on. And it is, so that is my advice to all listeners around the world, cheer yourself up by watching Fawlty Towers. It is enduring and timeless and 45 years ago i cant believe it. There were other issues about whether it would be made today and someone so big themes as well as light ones. As an american living in the uk, did you understand Fawlty Towers, which is kind of setting an english Seaside Hotel in enfield is kind of, now, feels almost from another world but is still amazingly funny, at least two of it . Well, i lived Fawlty Towers because i did my first tour of duty as a University Student in 1970 and 71 and i did stay at the British Seaside which is an experience well have to have, all foreigners, all foreigners need to have the British Seaside experience in a Fawlty Towers like hotel. I got it and it was hugely popular in america in the 705 when it was sold on. Thank all of you very much. Thats it for dateline london for this week geeta guru murphy is here next week at the same time. Goodbye. Hello, weve got a fairly fresh, autumnal feeling weekend ahead. And something of mixed fortunes in terms of the weather, too. Its still quite windy, with some showers across some eastern parts of the uk, particularly Eastern England. And for all of us, its staying fairly chilly. But there will be some blue sky and there will be some sunshine on offer for many places. Weve got an area of low pressure, which is slow moving, out towards the east. Its been with us a couple of days and are still driving some showers into parts of Eastern England as well. Quite a brisk, northerly breeze. Any showers for scotland and Northern Ireland will fade away into the afternoon hours. So, some sunshine for many northern and western parts of the uk, but cloudier through the midlands and Eastern England, with showers affecting lincolnshire, into east anglia and down towards kent and sussex as well, later on this afternoon. Temperatures for most of us, about 13 to 16 degrees, but feeling cooler where youre exposed to that wind around the east coast, and average wind speeds here will be about 10 20 mph, but if we focus in on the gusts of wind we are likely to see in the east, they will be quite significant. These numbers in the black circles, 40 50 mph gusts of wind coming in from the north, driving some big waves into parts of east yorkshire, down towards norfolk for instance as well. Now, through the course of this evening and overnight, most places become dry. Any last showers fading away from the south east through the evening. Still quite cloudy across the eastern half of england in particular. Clearer skies for scotland, Northern Ireland and western parts of england and wales. Its here that temperatures will fall though. Could be a touch of frost to start your sunday morning, especially for rural scotland. After that fairly cold start the day, it is looking, again,like an east west split. Through the midlands and Eastern England, youre keeping the cloud through the day. Perhaps the odd light shower coming out of that. Still breezy, but not as windy as recent days, but for the rest of the uk, weve got lighter winds here and more in the way of sunshine. So another dry day to come for the bulk of scotland, Northern Ireland, wales, the south west of england, too. Temperatures in the warmer spots in fact a little bit warmer than recent days, 18 degrees or so, but still feeling cool for the likes of eastern scotland and Eastern England, too. And then looking ahead into the new working week, weve got an area of High Pressure trying to build in, but then this week weather front just starts push across the uk. It will fizzle as it does so. So mostly dry through the course of monday and tuesday, and then things turn to more unsettled and autumnal conditions from midweek onwards. Bye for now. This is bbc news with the latest headlines for viewers in the uk and around the world. A quarter of the uk population is under extra lockdown rules with new measures in force across parts of Northern England and wales from today. It comes as 1,700 students in manchester are told to stay in their halls of residence for two weeks after a spike in coronavirus cases. In france, protests from hospitality workers as new covid restrictions come into effect in marseille, the epicentre of a secondwave of coronavirus infections. Tributes are paid to a popular and talented Police Officer killed at a Custody Centre in south london. Sergeant matt ratina was shot, as a suspect in handcuffs was being checked in. Us media say donald trump will nominate conservative federal judge Amy Coney Barrett to the supreme court
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