Transcripts For BBCNEWS Newsnight 20170621

Embers of the House Of Commons. My governments priority is to ensure the best possible deal as the country leads the european union. Members. It was a slimmed down queens beach, and not much of the tory manifesto was there. We will ask what the prospects for this government. As it run out of ideas already, or money will it be power oi already, or money will it be power or paralysis that prevails . Also tonight following theresa mays response to the Grenfell Tower disaster, we hear an opinion on sentimentality. And we will be chatting with the start of the Royal Opera Houses new production of othello. Hello. It was an awkward queens beach for so many reasons. It was fregley too hot, and it clashed with ascot, that the cream had to get to art was, and more than anything, it was awkward for theresa may, who did not have a deal with the dup and had tojump on much of what she campaigned on. The dup and had tojump on much of what she campaigned on. Queen. But this is the brexit parliament. That is what this is all about. On this special day, the queen is not the only elderly person with a sense of ritual. Mr speaker, the queen commenced the house. Get your skates on much appreciated levity ata skates on much appreciated levity at a sombre time. For a country that knows what is leaving, we are less sure about where we are going. And the speech offered little clarity. It was a stripped back affair, less formal than usual. Any material was stripped back to, reduced to the agreeable. Legislation will be brought forward to protect the victims of Domestic Violence and abuse. The inevitable. The private will work to improve social care and bring forward ideas the consultation. And the big one, the positively divisive. The Prime Minister is committed to working with parliament, at the bold administrations, business, and others, to build the widest possible consensus on the countrys future outside the european union. The queen does not write her own lives, shejust queen does not write her own lives, she just delivers them. Brexit might be happening, but there is no consensus on it, and finding one is not there to be easy. Indeed, the issue of division came up as the commons debated this beach. Issue of division came up as the commons debated this beachm issue of division came up as the commons debated this beach. It is about developing a new partnership our european friends and neighbours. We are leaving the european union, not europe. It is that sees in this moment a change to Delivery Plan through stronger, fairer britain, by strengthening our economy, tackling injustice, and promoting Opportunity Aspiration for all. The rest were the risk for divided nations is that nothing will get done. So this government will broadly not make tough decisions on spending. We are tired of all out. From cardiff to canterbury, people chose hope over fear. All that. And they sent an unequivocal message that austerity must be brought to an end. The government will swerve on other controversies, too. Grammar schools . No mention. The winterfuel allowa nce, a ppa re ntly safer no mention. The winterfuel allowance, apparently safer the time being. Ina allowance, apparently safer the time being. In a slimmed down speech, it it was all about brexit. Secondly that is. A ready notice that brexit was the theme. Many observed the queen had just for the occasion, selecting a hat that looked rather like an eu flag. Was she tried to Say Something . Was that why the crown had to travel alone on the day . It was a day of drama, but underneath all about, some have called this a zombie government. Nick wattjoins us. Called this a zombie government. Nick watt joins us. What is your assessment . I have to say its oblak isa assessment . I have to say its oblak is a tale of two speakers. Firstly, the there was a bold speech, even a historic speech, as the government introduced the most important part of its election manifesto, which is to provide a basis for the uks live outside the eu. But then there was the kevin speech, a series of important but uncontroversial measures, such as the civil liability bill, to reduce Motor Insurance premiums, at any disappearance of controversial elements from the pre election theresa may. So not a word on grammar schools. This shows to scenes of this government bullishness on brexit, because the government says that more than 82 of the electorate voted for parties that are unequivocally committed to brexit, but then a Survival Instinct on other areas of domestic policy, the government knows that in those areas, and less each chooses consensus, it would succeed. A lot of this will depend on the dup. When we first hear that the deal was about to be signed . What is going on . Said Jeffrey Donaldson said this evening that he is confident that there will be a so called supply and confidence deal next week. But i have to say i detect a bit of a chill in the air on both sides. The senior tories, i think, chill in the air on both sides. The seniortories, ithink, in chill in the air on both sides. The senior tories, i think, in the dup, are pushing their luck. There was a suggestion a few days go that the government was willing to put a 750 mount £750 million package on the table. The dup said that was lovely, we would like to be 2 billion, because that would look better. These tories are saying that theresa may really can take the risk of not signing a formal agreement with the dup, because are really going to bring down this government and increase the chances Ofjeremy Corbyn becoming Prime Minister . And the dup are now really irritated with the Northern Ireland office. Im told that they are really upset that senior officials are casting a shade on the dup. Otherwise would be inserting words into the proposed agreement that the government will be studiously impartial in the process , be studiously impartial in the process, and the dup will have unit that no influence. The widest possible consensus on the countrys future outside the european union. What do you think this means for brexit . There was an interesting intervention by nigel dodds, the dup leader at westminster. He warmly welcomes the queens speech and then scotched the suggestion the dup is interested in a so called soft brexit. He said out of the Single Market, out of the customs union, and that she was ultimately why the Prime Minister may be keen to secure a deal with the dup because Downing Street this afternoon was arguing that any deal that commands a majority in the House Of Commons will trigger the so called salisbury convention, and we thought that had just applied to manifestos, which means in the House Of Lords they will see it must fall into line. If there is a deal with the dup and the queens speech is passed and they say to the lords, dont try to interfere. So the deal means the House Of Lords, you think, well, the government thinks the House Of Lords cannot oppose it . That is the governments interpretation of the salisbury convention. Which says they cannot oppose things in the manifesto. Yes, but governement lawyers are saying basically if the deal is agreed and the queens speech, that would apply. But they are government lawyers. Ok, thank you, nick. Austerity has defined the tory or tory led governments of recent years. Getting the deficit down has been the goal, and restraint on public spending has been the method. Its notjob done exactly the Borrowing Targets have been moved more than once. But theres enormous pressure to ease austerity and get money into the Public Services. So how much room is there for that . Chris cook, our policy editor, has been casting his eye over the books. Chanting london has suffered a terrible month but a protest today in the city marketed as a deal of rage at the government, slightly underwhelmed. Notjust concerned about austerity, though, but they now attract support from a surprisingly wide range. Ifeel we have had enough austerity, and i want to see the promotion of higher Living Standards and better Funding Incomes as our main purpose, and im very conscious that schools in my area and social care in my area need more public money support, and that is true of many of my friends in english constituencies. Saw how easy would it be for the government to meet the demands of mr redwood or his fellow anti austerity campaigners . There is nothing really very unusual about the fact that our chancellor Philip Hammond has set himself a series of fiscal rules, guidelines that basically explain when he is able to borrow money, why and how much. It is very unusual, though, about his fiscal plans is that he doesntjust intend to meet his fiscal rules, he intends to smash them. So in fact if he really wants to spend more money without raising taxation, he has actually got loads of room to do it. The fiscal rule that matters most is that the underlying fiscal deficit should be no more than 2 of gdp by 2021. The governments current plans imply that the deficit will be 0. 9 of gdp in that year. So that means it could borrow i. I of gdp more in that year to spend without raising taxes. Thats about £23 billion a year more spending. Because you would want wiggle room to cope with a shot. At the moment it looks like there is lots of headroom but that Economic Uncertainty is uncertain, to put it mildly, in a position where they are not scrabbling to make cuts in 2020 because for example the economy does for arguments sake, though, lets say you wanted use up much of that £23 billion slack. You could, for example, let Public Sector pay grow like private sector pay. That would cost about £9 billion a year by the end of the parliament. For a further £2 billion or so, you could then end the benefits freeze, for a further £4 billion, and restore the generosity of universal credit. That would be about £3 billion a year, and that would leave you with a few spare billion pounds for hospitals, social care, whatever and all without raising any tax. This approach would probably mean breaking the chancellors fiscal term always matters more in politics than the long term. One of thing is already happening is the population is ageing. 2 Million People are aged over 65 more than in 2010, which means more money for pensions, greater demand on the health service, and that will continue because of what is happening to the age structure of the population, and that does mean that over the next 20 years or so, and enter the longer run, we are either going to have to decide we willjust not provide health and pensions like we have in the past, or if we do provide then we will either have to have more tax or even more cuts in Everything Else. These protesters some of what they want relatively easily. But whether the task falls to the current chancellor or one of his successors, taxes are almost certainly heading up. Chris cook there. Of reinvention of the economic model, which was articulated by theresa may on the steps of Downing Street last year all got lost. Or, at least, it was not put into policy. Now that point was forcefully made to the foreign secretary boris mair on radio 4s pm programme. Mrjohnson tried to rebut it, but it didnt go well. Lastjuly in Downing Street, in her famous just about managing speech, on the day she became Prime Minister, theresa may described several Burning Injustices as she put it in our society. I want to look at them. Measures to. Oh, hang on a second. There are all sorts of measures that we want to take to to ensure we do not discriminate against everybody. Well, what we want to see on Mental Health care is a. Erm, a proper understanding. There, indeed, to get back to your first question. Well, why dont we do the questions in the order im asking them . Its not a two ronnies sketch, you cant answer wellsfib et wejia nt ta see well, why dont we do the questions in the order im asking them . Its not a two ronnies sketch, you cant answer the question before last. So, where does this government go . We asked Downing Street if any ministers were available to be with us tonight, but unfortunately none were. But as the government will come under pressure in the next couple of years both from its own back benches and from the official parliamentary opposition, we have them both represented here. Heidi allen is conservative mp for south cambridgeshire. Andrew gwynne is the shadow Secretary Of State for local government and chaired their recent election campaign. Good evening to you both. Heidi, i would like to start with you. This was different to the manifesto, i think you would agree. In your view, better . A bit of both. Better insofar that, for me, personally, i have found the talk about a more consensual approach on brexit, ifound that very positive. The part on brexit in the manifesto did not appeal to the whole of the electorate. It gives us an opportunity to look at that again. Some sense on public spending about the nhs, fairerfunding, particularly important for schools like mine, that have been underfunded for many years. Mental health, glad to see that is in there. In a funny way, im glad to see social care in there. But all of the stuff that is not in there, you are no fan of fox hunting, grammar schools, you are pleased they have gone . Delighted, but they are not the big things, the big things are how we fix social care, how we fund the nhs. At least they were still in there, which opens a dialogue about how we do it. Isnt the truth that the party has lost the stomach for any kind of austerity now . This parliament is about injecting extra money into Public Services rather than taking it out . Of Pumping Money in everywhere. Do we need to look at areas like nhs pay, where the staff have been working so hard for years, with modest increases, i think it is time to see if we can look up their pay again. For schools, clearly, there will be balancing the fairer Funding Formula that was proposed, it doesnt work. Many others have said that it doesnt work on all sides of the house. It is an opportunity to look at that. I dont think it is right to take austerity away from the entirety of the Public Sector, because that means we will never get the deficit down. You would be willing for there to be small tax increases to pay for better Public Services, if that is what it . Yes, i would. Andrew, there were more progressive elements in this queens speech. Would you be supporting them . Well, we are in a very unusual situation. We have a Minority Government, the first time we have had a Minority Government since the 19705, since1974. We have a situation here where we had a Prime Minister running away from public scrutiny during the election. We have now got ministers running away from public scrutiny on this programme and others. The fact is, i am bitterly disappointed by the queens speech because there was no real substance in there. We talk about ending austerity, but, actually, where is the substance . Where is, for example, ending the pay freeze for Public Sector workers . That comes in the budget, you dont have to put that in the queens speech. You canjust do it. But the government could signal that now. Why do we have to wait . Why is it always talking about something in the future . There was nothing in there that answers the big issues facing the country today, that is our underfunded Public Services. There wasnt, but heidi allen thinks there probably is going to be some extra money. Will you support the government on the more progressive elements . Many of it is consultations, for example. Will you be constructive and supportive . Theydidnt. So it x we can use the conservative logic, where they say that a proportion, 82 of the electorate voted for parties that support brexit. I will use their logic in reverse, 58 of people voted for parties that were committed to ending, to a lesser or greater extent, austerity. You keep banging on about austerity. It seems to be a done deal . Clearly, where there are measures we can support, that were in the labour partys very progressive manifesto, we will support those. We will also be using every parliamentary procedure to push forward labours manifesto. Did i miss something . Did you get a majority . Did you get the support of the voters, more votes than the Conservative Party . The point is, we increased our share of the vote. How is increasing your share of the vote a mandate party got more . No party got a majority. She hasjumped half of her manifesto, you are saying you will put yours in, yours got even fewer votes the point is, people recognise, yes, we are in a Hung Parliament and we have to Work Together on these issues. Isnt this a time for something more constructive . Either you are going to have an election and say we are going to fight it again, because nobody won. You would be up for that . Absolutely. Do you want another one, heidi, or do you sit down and have a compromisedpastl i would genuinely much rather do that. We were chatting about it in the green room before we came on tonight. So much of this election result, it is like brexit. It is like trump. It is people saying we have had enough for the established order. Govern the country. Your great ideas, my great ideas, collectively, it is not motherhood and apple pie, it is what the country wants and deserves. Potential government support. What do you think of the way that is going . With a Minority Government. I know it wasnt a majority, but we got the most seats. As with the nhs, social care. So many of us, prior to the election, came to see the Prime Minister and have a Cross Party Commission on this. What do you think of that other . Where we agree on things, of course we all want to improve this country. We want this country to be better than it is at the moment. But there are massive differences as well, between the parties. We have to recognise that, in a Hung Parliament, parliament itself will decide on some of these issues. The funny thing is, you say there are massive differences, Everybody Knows come inside london and particularly outside london, there is a thirst for a big amount of economic change, the kind that theresa may articulated on the steps of Downing Street. I think you could probably agree with a lot of what you said. You may say that she didnt follow up. Shes not delivered it. But you could agree with the objectives. So you are on the same page . The opportunity, a vision of a better, fairer, Equal Britain that jeremy puts out in the general election, that really did engage a whole new generation of voters that clearly have not been engaged with the political process. We all share the vision. This is about a different journey and, finding, collectively, through parliament, a compromised route to get there. Therefore, it might reflect the result of the actual election. Fascinating, thanks very much indeed. Right, weve had lots of views on this programme since the election, but not many of our Viewsnights The Spot where we give time to non newsnighters to offer a view. Tonight, times columnist Melanie Phillips gives us her take on the debate over the Prime Ministers public reaction to the Grenfell Tower fire. Theresa may should have immediately visited the survivors of the g Re Nfell Tower visited the survivors of the Grenfell Tower fire. Tomorrow, theres a European Council meeting in brussels. The heads of government will be there, including theresa may. This meeting is not about us there are other things going on in the eu as well but the Prime Minister will get a chance to make an offer on the status of eu citizens in the uk. We can talk now to the portuguese foreign minister, Augusto Santos silva, whojoins us from lisbon. A very good evening to you. Can i ask you specific questions about this issue of citizens . Which citizens should we worry about . Everybody who arrives here before march 2019, or should we worry about the people that came before the referendum date . What date matters to you in this negotiation . The cut off date will be march 2019, because, until then, the United Kingdom will be a member state of the european union. So, the Free Movement of people applies also to the United Kingdom. One thing that has been said about these negotiations is that nothing is agreed until the very end, and everything is agreed. I suppose one question is, if a deal is reached on the issue of citizens in the next month, and then no other deal is reached, the rest of the deal falls apart, will the citizen bit survive or does it go out with Everything Else that has fallen apart . We have to reach an overall agreement. The agreement we need to negotiate has to be a balanced one. Of course, the more rapidly we can obtain a good agreement on citizens, the better it will be for the rest of the negotiations. But the citizens wont really know whether the deal works until the very end, which could be in 18 months time. Is that correct . Yes. You can say that the agreement on brexit will be a whole one. So, the negotiation on Citizens Rights is a very important part of the agreement. It is a top priority for all of us. But it is only a part of overreaching agreement, the general one. I know a lot of citizens will be very sad to hear that. I think they probably had in mind that something would be settled that would apply to them, regardless of whether we work out the divorce bill, work out all the other complexities over our future trading arrangements. You are saying they are not secure until the final deal . No, i dont mean to be that rude. Of course. I am saying it is very important to reach an agreement on citizens because it would be a very good start for a negotiation that is very complex, but where the goal is to reach a balanced agreement, an agreement that can setup a relationship between the United Kingdom and the whole of the european union. So, i am much confident that the rights of the british citizens in europe, and the rights of european citizens in the United Kingdom, can be respected as a very Important Pillar of a new relationship between the United Kingdom and the european union. One of the most interesting or difficult issues is Free Movement under the new arrangements, whatever we have. We cant be in the Single Market because we say we wont have the Free Movement of people. Is there any compromise we can get on that . Would it be possible to say we will have Free Movement of labour, but not people . Would that give us more access to the Single Market, for example . As you know, the british people decided to leave the european union. We have to respect that decision. But, at the same time, we have to build together a new arrangement, a new agreement. Trade, investment and economic agreement between the United Kingdom and the european union. As your chancellor said yesterday, talent is needed everywhere and the United Kingdom will need european and worldwide talent. So, i think, in the context of the new agreement between the United Kingdom and the european union, we shall build up together also an arrangement on the conditions of movement of people and labour between britain and europe. One last one, theresa may obviously has not got the parliamentary majority she wanted. She is a weakened Prime Minister in that respect. Do you think that is going to make it harder for this negotiation, in that she will not be able to come back and ask for concessions or compromises from parliament for the british people . No, we have to respect the electoral result in the United Kingdom. As you know, the portuguese government is a minority one that has a majority in parliament, because we have an agreement with other parties. So, it is a very analogous case to the british one nowadays. So, theresa may, as Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, will represent the interests of the United Kingdom in the context of negotiations. The interests of the United Kingdom and the interests of europe, i think, are convergent. I am confident that we shall reach a balanced result in this very complex negotiation. Thank you very much indeed. Thanks for answering the specific questions. Tonight at londons Royal Opera House, the curtain came down onjonas kaufmanns debut as verdis otello. Kaufmann is the hottest star working in opera today, constantly mobbed by fans. He has it all the ability to act, the looks, and the voice as well, usefully. Otello as othello fans will know murders his wife in a fit ofjealousy, believing her unfaithful, thanks to poison dripped in his ear by his best friend. It is a role that Placido Domingo made his own, and unsurprisingly comparisons have been made between kaufmann and the latin opera great. Katie razzalls been finding out what makes kaufmanns voice so distinct. Larmi lo vinse luragano. How do i describe my voice . This is very difficult. Over the years, the voice has matured, and the voice has become rounder and darker all the time, which makes it ideal for parts like otello. Jonas kaufmann, the rich voiced german tenor with the byronic good looks, is one of operas brightest stars. His voice. You cant divorce it from the intelligence that is behind it, the charisma that is behind it, the musicality that is behind it, the gift that he has for languages. Its all part of the package, you know. You must help him, christina, with the. Kaufmanns worked many times with Antonio Pappano at londons Royal Opera House, and with him is no making his debut as verdis otello. Since tony pappano refuses to conduct operas in wales, i have to come to london to do it with him here. Because he said you wont leave, so hes got to come to you. Laughs well, its my house, you know. Of course hes maybe not the only fantastic conductor on the planet, but somehow i think we speak the same musical language. I hear he hums a lot. Yeah, he does. I mean, im far away. If you sit in the front row right next to the pit you can probably hear him. All the time. And hes chewing also its as if hes digesting the music that he just creates. Getting slower and slower, which it should, but still with tension. Dulce. I think when otellos working correctly, you sort of feel like you shouldnt be watching. Its something so private, its something so ghastly happening between, basically, two good people, otello and desdemona, and one very bad person. There are only a few singers who have the technique, who have the stagecraft, who have the courage, the charisma, to pull it off. If you dont know what youre doing, it can potentially do harm to your voice, and so you really have to know what youre doing. I Thinkjonas Wasjust ready to take on the challenge. Acting has nothing to do with faking. If i pretend to be someone, this is not acting to me. Acting means to me that i, convincingly, slip into this other personality, and the character seems to be mine. And the words that come out seem to be my words that spontaneously came to me. For the first time in all those years and all those operas that ive performed and lived through, i feel myself being affected, at the end of the show. I cannotjust snap my fingers and get out of this mood. It is a long way to come out of that darkness that surrounds you at the end of the opera. The film is dated, of course, but Placido Domingo is still viewed as the definitive otello. Jonas kaufmanns outstanding voice and acting ability often see him ranked up there with domingo. Yes, of course im flattered. He not only once but several times announced me as his official successor, which is actually quite a burden that you have to carry. He had the whole package, which is the amazing thing. Dont you have the whole package . Yeah, maybe, but the thing is he was always my excuse when people would say, but you have to concentrate on something you have to become a donizetti or a bellini tenor, or you go for the verdi tenor, or you do the french repertoire. If you really want to go then do the german stuff, but dont do anything else. You have to specialise, and i kept saying, n0, because placido didnt. And they say, yeah, but this is placido. No, this is the exception. You cant do it. And he did, and thats why he was my role model. Just what he and domingo can do with their voices, how they can colour, how they act with the voice its notjust a question of the body and psychology, but in the very colour, they show you the psychology. Jonas has a natural ability to musicalise in a mediterranean way, and so his voice, though not losing its german heroic quality, musically he is so convincing as a romantic latin italian call it what you will hero. Bravo, guys. Bravo. Terrific. You should never be too much fixated on your role model. You should find your own natural sound and hope that this is individual and beautiful enough to succeed and make a career. That was Katie Razzall talking to jonas kaufmann, and by the way i dont think you have to be in the Royal Opera House to see that otello because they are showing it in cinemas around the country as well. Lets look at the guardian. Leading on Grenfell Tower, says the council inspected the building 16 times and failed to notice or do anything about the cladding. It was the council responsible for looking at the building. The council of course owned the building. The times leads on may facing a revolt over brexit laws. About scotland, and most people will probably read the top item that ageing mines are kept sharp by sex. And the daily mail leads on an interview with prince harry, in which he says that no royal once the throne. He says nobody wants it, but we will do our duty if we have to. That is it for tonight. The bad news is the days start getting shorter now. The good news is that this week sees a memorable anniversary for tv geeks. 50 years ago the bbc made the worlds First International Satellite Broadcast of a television show. I wonder if they did anything interesting. Probably not. Goodnight. 0k . Love, love, love love, love, love love, love, love theres nothing you can do that cant be done nothing you can sing that cant be sung hello. We saw the peak of the current heatwave during the course of the afternoon. Temperature wise, we saw that high 20s, low 30s, quite widely across the south. But it was he threw in london which saw 35 celsius, many it the warmest day of the year, and the Warmestjune Day since 1976. Well saw its warmest day of the year so far, with 31 degrees recorded in cardiff. Further north, thunderstorms broke out in Northern England and towards parts of scotland, as well. The violent one. That is because the cooler, fresh air, is slowly making inroads into this hot and energy filled atmosphere. Heading through the course of the overnight period, the showers and thunderstorms will rumble on brawl while adding clear up rumble on brawl while adding clear up into the north sea. There will be mist and no pushing into the western coastal areas, where it will be cooler. But In The South East, it will be warm, maggie, an uncomfortable overnight. Though day sta rts uncomfortable overnight. Though day starts rightly In The South East. Thunderstorms move through the midlands and south east in the morning, then clear away. They ripple showers will move in Northern England and towards Eastern England in the afternoon. A messy, thundery breakdowns. A cooler, fresh appeal, certainly across the west. 2425 degrees In The South East. Their mid 20s as opposed to the mid 30s. It will build different. Interstate evening, it will turn on whether a milder in Northern Ireland. We will see their first areas of low pressure moving in off the atlantic. This will introduce more unsettled weather, friday onwards, with fresh air. Friday, a windy day, cloudy. A little sunshine here and there, In The South East and maybe scotland. Temperature wise, at mid to upper teens across the north and west, maybe 24 or 25 across the south east, feeling fresher, still. Into the weekend, it looks pretty u nsettled. Into the weekend, it looks pretty unsettled. A lot of cloud around, quite breezy. Most of the showers in the north and west will feel cool across scotland and Northern Ireland. 22 or 23 across the south east. Similar picture on sunday. Silly me messages, really, it is turning cooler. Temperatures will go closer to normal for this earlier. This week and will feel fresher than lately. It will be breezy time, but also some sunshine and showers, too. That is your weather. Welcome to newsday. The headlines the Iraqi Military says is has blown up the Iraqi Military says is has blown up mosuls Allberry Mosque and one muslim says it is a crime against iraq. And Historical Dome was destroyed a few hours ago. The american Secretary Of State says china has a responsibility to force north korea to scrap its nuclear weapons. Also coming up on the programme it is a victory for republicans after winning a Special Election in georgia. President trump heads to iowa to kickstart his agenda