and that allows for advertisers to reach very niche audiences. but is it also because particularly in the us, but maybe in the uk as well, your average podcast listener is more affluent than the average american? that, the studies have shown that, yes, podcasts, the average podcast listener is is affluent. yes. and they are spending. and nick, if i bring you in here, one of the things i was reading before i came on air was an article by you saying podcasts are dead or words to that effect. now, i think you are slightly, you know, using a headline to get my attention which, which, which did thejob. but which did the job. but why do you think podcasts are on the verge of fundamentally changing? i think if we look at the programme we're on now, this show wouldn't exist if it was just a podcast. this is an opportunity to go out on radio four, but it's also a podcast. it's also a tv show. you've got these multi strand kind of productions, and podcasting is at a stage where i think that in order to be a serious competitor across various media forms, you have to be a bit