Hello, its tuesday, its 10 oclock, im Victoria Derbyshire. And were live from new broadcasting house. Trans patients are waiting up to three years to see a specialist, this programme can reveal today. Its why some people are taking matters into their own hands by buying hormones from unregulated sources on the internet. It basically felt like a choice between suicide and self medication, because i did not deal with the thought of further masculinisation, in my case. Two british tourists who are on the diamond princess cruise liner quarantined in japan say they have tested positive for the coronovirus, as the British Government tries to sort a plane to bring them home. Last year a viewer emailed our programme to tell us she had been conceived by rape and she wanted her father prosecuted. Id always thought it was so wrong that my birth father was never prosecuted. It was then that i thought, ive got dna evidence, because i am dna evidence. Im a walking crime scene. Today, an update on that story we can reveal that a man has been arrested and is under investigation. Well bring you all the details. And the father of the wikileaks founderJulian Assange tells this programme his son will face effectively a death sentence if he is sent to the us to face trial. Mr assanges extradition hearing begins next week. I cant speculate on to his state of mind. But i imagine that he would be
really worried, because being sent to the United States is a death sentence. Hi, welcome to the programme. Were live until 11 this morning. If youre trans and are waiting a very long time to see a specialist, do get in touch. Why are you uwaiting so long, what have been told and what effect is it having on you . Use the hashtag victorialive. Email victoria bbc. Co. Uk, text 61124 itll cost the Standard Network rate. First Annita Mcveigh has the news. Thank you, victoria. Good morning. The river wye at monmouth has reached the highest level ever recorded, following the heavy rain
brought by storm dennis. Dozens of people have spent the night away from home as nearly 200 flood warnings remain in place across parts of the uk. One woman died after being swept away in floodwater in worcestershire. There are currently ten severe flood warnings in england and wales, meaning theres a danger to life. The Foreign Office says it is organising a flight back to the uk as soon as possible for the 7a british passengers on the cruise ship, diamond princess, which is in quarantine offjapan because of the coronavirus. This morning a british couple who have been critical of the governments response, david and sally abel, said they have tested positive for the virus. More than a50 people on board have been diagnosed with the illness. The news from japan this morning is that another 88 people have coronavirus. Europes biggest bank, hsbc, has announced its to cut 35,000 jobs globally over the next three years. Hsbc has seen its annual profits drop by a third, to around £10 billion largely because of its european
investment and commercial banking operations. The banks interim chief executive, noel quinn, warned that it was not delivering acceptable returns. Its the third Restructuring Plan in a decade. Transgender patients are choosing to self medicate with hormones bought online from unregulated sources due to waiting times to see nhs specialists. In many areas, some patients wait over two years to be seen, new figures seen by this Programme Show englands target time is 18 weeks. Nhs england said it had increased investment to respond to rising demand. Law student kara told the Victoria Derbyshire programme she began buying oestrogen last summer online, to begin her transition. It obviously was my choice, but i feel like ive been basically forced into it, because in no way, shape orform do i want to be taking hormones not under the guidance of a
medical professional. The father of wikileaks founder Julian Assange has told this programme his son would face what is effectively a death sentence were he sent to the United States to face trial. The us wants the founder of the wikileaks website to face 18 charges of attempted hacking and breaches of the espionage act. John shipton raised concerns over his sons health ahead of a controversial extradition hearing starting next week. Labour and the liberal democrats have said borisjohnson has questions to answer after the resignation of a downing street adviser with controversial views on eugenics, unplanned pregnancies and race. Andrew sabisky quit last night blaming media hysteria about what he called his old stuff online some of which had suggested intelligence has a racial component and that compulsory contraception could avoid creating a permanent underclass. The newjames bond theme no time to die only took three days
to write, Billie Eilish and her producer and brother Finneas Oconnell have said. In an exclusive interview with bbc breakfast, theyve speaking about the song, as well as their experiences with social media ahead of billies performance at tonights 40th brit awards. And that is a summary of the main news so and that is a summary of the main news so far. Back to you, victoria. Welcome, we are still here, Victoria Derbyshire with you until 11. This programme can reveal that trans patients are waiting up to three years to see specialists, and some are choosing to self medicate with hormones bought online. Freedom of information data weve obtained exclusively has found that in all but one of the uks 13 gender Identity Clinics you can end up waiting over a year to be seen. In belfast, you can wait up to 166 weeks, in nottinghamshire up to 145. In england, the target waiting time isjust 18 weeks. 0ur reporter mike cowan has been investigating the risks some people are taking with unregulated drugs because they arent getting the care they need. Imagine you are diagnosed with a medical condition, and for that you are entitled to see a specialist within 18 weeks. For thousands of people of gender dysphoria, they are waiting in excess of two and a half yea rs waiting in excess of two and a half years just to have an initial appointment. Data obtained exclusively by this programme has found every trust in england is consistently missing their target of 18 weeks. The longer stay patient has waited in the uk is in northern ireland, at over three years. Their target is to be seen within 52
weeks. The shortest waiting time is a highland gender Identity Clinic in scotland, at 32 weeks. Londons tavistock penick were not able to provide accurate figures, but anecdotal evidence points to patients waiting up to half years to be seen tavistock clinic. Nottingham has the longest waiting england atjust nottingham has the longest waiting england at just under three nottingham has the longest waiting england atjust under three years. These excessive waiting times are leading to an increasing number of people stepping into the unknown and buying hormones online. Like 20 year old law student kara. Last summer 20 year old law student kara. Last summer she started buying oestrogen, the hormone trans women use. This will begin her transition until she can be seen at a clinic. She has been on the waiting list for two yea rs been on the waiting list for two years and hopes to be seen in the
next 12 months. How does it feel when you have made this decision and you had said yes, i will change my gender, and then you are told, 0k, you have to wait two and a half yea rs 7 you have to wait two and a half years . I was very, very low and suicidal. I will not say it was 100 com pletely suicidal. I will not say it was 100 completely because of that, but many people have lots of things going on in their lives, so when you have something as big as that which affects you so much, it doesnt take much else to kind of push you to that point. Last year when you were referred and you find out how long there was to wait, you went through quite a difficult time . |j there was to wait, you went through quite a difficult time . I was sectioned, yes. And. Ithink that its a massive part of it, because at that time i was not self medicating. At that time i was not selfmedicating. Is it fair that you had to make that decision . M
obviously was my choice, but i feel like i have been basically forced into it, because in no way, shape or form to want to be taking hormones not under the guidance of a medical professional. I was so low before that it basically felt like a choice between suicide or self medicating, because i could not deal with the thought of further masculinisation, in my case. Were you nervous the first time you took the pills, because you did not know what they we re because you did not know what they were 01 because you did not know what they were or where they came from . because you did not know what they were or where they came from . I was so were or where they came from . I was so scared, i know everything about the oestrogen but not those specific ta blets, the oestrogen but not those specific tablets, if they are what they say they are, i do not have the funds to get it tested so it is a guessing game with your life, it could be anything. I was absolutely petrified. 0estrogen is a
prescription only projects but if it is for personal use you can legally import it without a perception prescription only projects. Testosterone is a classy drug and it is illegal to sell it, punishable by up is illegal to sell it, punishable by up to 1a years injail, but it is not illegal to buy or sell for personal use provided it is not brought into the country via the postal system testosterone is a class c drug. We wanted to see how easy it was to buy both types of hormones online. They are charging £109 for a drug which costs less than a tenner on the nhs. You are effectively being asked to give huge sums of money to a website you have never heard of not based in the uk and to pay sometimes via bitcoin or bank transfer. That is not the side ofa bank transfer. That is not the side of a legitimate company. And it wasnt. 0ut of a legitimate company. And it wasnt. Out of the four projects we ordered, only three turned up. Two
we re ordered, only three turned up. Two were oestrogen based, one testosterone. We have sent them to a laboratory to test their authenticity. While we wait for the results, i have been to meet a doctor at the sheffield gender Identity Clinic. How dangerous is it to self medicating . Identity clinic. How dangerous is it to selfmedicating . If you take testosterone there is a risk of a condition which can lead to spontaneous cutting of the blood. There is an increased risk of clotting if you take oestrogen, a risk of liver problems, it affects various parameters in your blood and if it is not being monitored by a gp, somebody is not having regular blood tests, they are putting themselves at risk. What drives somebody to self medicating . Themselves at risk. What drives somebody to self medicating .
themselves at risk. What drives somebody to selfmedicating . I think people are self medicating because they have a strong sense of having a significant gender identity difficulty and obviously it goes without saying because there is a long waiting time to be seen in a clinic, some people do not want to wait that length of time. It has been about two weeks since we sent the samples off, and today we will get the results. Doctor walker, you had tested the three drugs we sent you, what did you find . Lets start with one of the oestrogen pills . You, what did you find . Lets start with one of the oestrogen pill57m with one of the oestrogen pills7m contained something which it claims to contain. Tell me about the second oestrogen based project . To contain. Tell me about the second oestrogen based project . Again, it contains what it claims to contain, in this case a type of oestrogen. The third project we said she was testosterone, what did you find . The third project. It claims to contain four esters of testosterone, my analysis federally two. The two oestrogen based projects appear authentic but the testosterone we bought claim to be made up of four different types of the drug. Doctor walker only fed two. Only found two, one of which was not listed on the vial. This indicates a counterfeit project from an unknown source. You would not recommend people take this . It has no safety features, like you say . |j people take this . It has no safety features, like you say . I would not recommend it. It is a prescription only medicine and you should only really ta ke a ny only medicine and you should only really take any of these under medical supervision. Lucas began his transition six years ago when he was 29 after being told
he would face a team into healthier weight for age identity maghera for a gender Identity Clinic appointment, he took matters into his own hands and bought testosterone online. Selfmedication is scary, unpleasant and potentially dangerous but better than the alternative. I wont be the only person who had this experience. You are so person who had this experience. You are so relieved and so excited you kind of dont care. Although none of the adverse reaction although i had not of the adverse reaction, i feel the quality contained was most lower and i suspect some of the doses i got were effectively nothing. I did not stop growing any facial hair at all until i moved on to actual prescribed testosterone. Just explain how you feel when you are told you have to wait one half yea rs are told you have to wait one half years to even be seen . It is
distressing and dehumanising. Dozens and dozens and dozens of people misgender me everyday at work, because every call i take, thank you, miss. That just because every call i take, thank you, miss. Thatjust was not something i could do any more. People die on that waiting list. I know of at least one person who did commit suicide on that waiting list. It kills people and it cant sit at the bottom of the nhss to do list forever. At some point, something is going to give, and i dont know whether that will be a sufficient body count or water. Or what. Ryan has e mailed to say thank you for covering the nhs waiting times fading trans people, i have only now completed my medical transition after seven yea rs completed my medical transition after seven years of mostly being stuck on waiting lists. The Current Situation will extend the process by at least two or three years for most people. That is ten years of not being able to live your life, affecting your Mental Health, relationships, work and other areas, no wonder we self medicating. So many others have experience of self harm, suicide attempts, unemployment and homelessness because of falling through the cracks of the system and increasing hostility towards trans and queer people. This has to stop. Rachel says i am a trans woman, i had been waiting for my first appointment for two years. Waiting for my first appointment for two yea rs. I waiting for my first appointment for two years. I am told i have another year to wait. As it was, i had taken it into my own hands and an selling my house to pay for my surgery. Tracy says i have been waiting over 18 months for a gender clinic appointment and have heard it will be at least another 19 months before any chance of one, more like four yea rs any chance of one, more like four years as predicted. Michael is our reporter, what is being done to try to combat these extraordinary long waiting times . A few things are being turned at the moment. In the last five years there has been Unprecedented Demand for these services and whilst there has been an increase in patients they have not necessarily been able to increase the amount of staff, and staff is a real issue. There is no direct pathway into gender health care, it relies on people in the field having an interest in gender ca re field having an interest in gender care to go into it, but that is changing. The royal of physicians had started that gender Identity Health care credential, that means people will have a direct qualification to go into those gender Identity Clinics. It is
crucial to understand this will all ta ke crucial to understand this will all take time and in the short term, there is unlikely to be any shortening of these waiting lists. Nhs england says they have invested more money this year, and later in the year will be doing a trial in london to look at how you can increase capacity and shorten waiting lists, and if that is successful they could look at why we miss out all over the country. We asked nhs england for an interview but they declined. A spokesperson said as more people feel able to seek support and treatment the demand for gender Identity Services has greatly increased, and in recent years weve increased investment to respond the Scottish Government said long waiting times for patients referred to gender Identity Clinics are unacceptable. These clinics are a very specialised resource, and while people are waiting to be assessed they still have access to a full range of Community Mental health and well being services appropriate to their situation and needs. Lets talk now to Jess Jolliffe who used to self medicate, but now secures her prescriptions privately while she waits to be seen at a clinic, sarah armstrong
who transitioned five years ago and was given hormones by her gp so she didnt have to self medicate, and Kirrin Medcalf who is the head of trans inclusion at stonewall. Thank you all for coming on the programme, i really appreciate your time. I want you to react to the length of some of these waiting times, first of all. Waiting times. It makes it such a struggle when you know you have such a fight, both on waiting times and society. It is horrendous that waiting times like that are there. We have had so many like that are there. We have had so ma ny texts, like that are there. We have had so many texts, martin says i am trans and have been waiting 136 weeks now, it will be three years before i get my first appointment, i have self medicated for two years and have now gone private for my hormones, this is so bad. Seven years ago i waited to see the specialist, says another
viewer, and another six months. Is appointme