From our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. President obama arrived in wales for a nato summit in more than 60 World Leaders have gathered in the city of newport. On the agenda ukraine, the rise of the islamic state, the future of afghanistan. Joining me is david sanger from the new york times. He has a piece today on the commitments on three fronts, as obamas foreignpolicy. Great to be back with you. Heres what you say, vowing in estonia to help for as long as necessary. President obama has now committed the United States to three major protections of its power. Asia, a more muscular presence than europe, and a new battle against islamist extremists that seems very likely to accelerate. Give me a sense of how these things impact the presidency at this time. Charlie, there are two or three ways that this will affect his presidency and his legacy as he enters the last two years of his term in office. The first is he had hoped and said repeatedly that the withdraw from iraq and afghanistan would allow for what he called was nationbuilding at home. We would free up resources that we could spend here. That was a theme of his 2008 and 2012 campaign. What we have discovered in the time he was getting ready to shrink the pentagon budget, he has three major adversaries he has to deal with, more in some ways. The rise of china has left him with no choice but to do the give it and it calls for moving forces to the abruptly 60,000 forces by around 2020. The new moves by Vladimir Putin which are unlikely to end with this incident in ukraine means that he needs a much more muscular move with nato along the russian border in those vulnerable nato states. Estonia, latvia, lithuania. Finally, the rise of isis means hes not only coming back in iraq but he also was likely to have to go take moves in syria that hes resisted for years. If you add all of these up, you end up with a very activist International Agenda that is likely to be costly. I have not heard anyone yet again to put this in the framework on how you remake the defenses or shrink the budget. The interesting thing, too, is it is a test of leadership. The white house does not like to hear it but the sense you get around the world im sure you hear this everywhere is the sense that the u. S. Is in a period of retrenchment. Statements like its time to do the nationbuilding at home. When you go to the middle east, you have people say, sometimes for reasons of their own agenda, we do not see america as involved as we need them to be. All of this discussion of the visit means we think about pivoting away from home. When does it start . We do not see a buildup here that matches the pace at which the chinese are moving into different territories to the degree of which they are challenging japan in the islands and the degree to which they are challenging vietnam, the philippines, and other states down in the south china sea. Hes working from behind the eight ball here to convince people that the u. S. Would be there for them. Theres also the fact the president has to do two things. He has to create confidence in his leadership because he wants to engage these threats and challenges to world order with the combination of forces. He does not want to go in alone. He has to convince of his commitment, stamina, understanding. At the same time, he has to convince americans this is not one more time where we are striding into a conflict that will take money, treasure, and lives over a long time. Theres a balance between how he handles this challenge to what he can do and his own objective. Thats part of the mismatch i was writing about the between the rhetoric and reality. In the middle east, one of the questions is why are many of the Arab League States and many of the sunni states not speaking out more strongly against these horrific acts conducted by isis . Not only the killing of the two american journalists which are horrific tragedies by themselves, but also the killing of so many muslims. In europe, i think the president is quite concerned that he cannot get out ahead too far ahead of the germans, the french, and others all of whom have economic ties we have discussed in previous shows with the russians. In asia, you have many countries deeply concerned but dont necessarily want to be the one to stand up to china. In each of these cases, the president feels very much like the u. S. Needs to be significantly involved. He wants to be able to show americans that we do not want to confront these issues more than the neighbors do. Why arent the neighbors not more concerned about this . In many cases they dont want to be the first to stand up and become a target. Certainly in asia, as many are concerned about the degree to which china can retaliate economically, look what happened when japan stood up to the chinese a few years ago when there was the arrest of a drunken chinese captain who had rammed a Japanese Coast Guard vessel. Immediately they cut off their supply of rare earth metals needed for electronics. It was a very raw power play. You also see this happen in the middle east increasingly where you have sunni states like the saudis who are quite concerned about speaking out to openly about isis which is, in fact, supported by many saudi individuals and charities. China are we surprised by the aggressiveness of xi jinping . I think everybody has been surprised to the degree which xi jinping, who most people thought was that his first years in office tending to the domestic, Economic Issues which are huge facing the chinese these days, and they are surprised that he has dressed many of these territorial issues. One reason may be to bolster his own credentials with the military, something his predecessor hu jintao never had. I think part of the challenge facing the United States right now is in china and russia, even dealing with terror groups like isis, we are facing problems of an entirely different nature. China is the management of a rising power and thats a very complex thing that we are not very good at and the british were not very good at when we were the rising power. In russia, we are dealing with the declining power, a shrinking population stabilized to some degree now but never really managed to join the knowledge economy. May be acting out right now in part to try to gain some degree of credibility they and unable to do with economic reform and immigration with the west. Interegration with the west. We are also facing a terror group of a certain kind trying to take territory and develop a new state which creates the possibility of Something Like afghanistan pre9 11. Any one of these challenges would be a very difficult thing to manage. Doing all three at a time seems to be overstretching the system. Theres always the ticking clock. In this case, when you have things like what happening in ukraine and isis, the clock is ticking. The clock is ticking on the other side of the world with leaders who know theyre going to be in office for some time. Xi jinping is in the beginning of his presidency. Vladimir putin could stay in office until 2024 if he could survive the many challenges he will have. We do not know if isis is a power that will burn out but there will be other forms of islamist extremism. For president obama, he can hand out clocks as president bush did that indicate exactly what the countdown is to the end of his administration. When you talk to people in the administration, many of them are exhausted. Theres a broad sense that his Top National Security team and his cabinet does not have some of the heft you saw sitting around the table in the first term where you had the likes of bob gates, hillary clinton, others who had independent ability to go argue with and talk to leaders around the world. I think secretary kerry has probably done the best job of anyone in the administration of setting out an agenda that way. He spent a lot of his first yearandahalf on the israelipalestinian issues to fairly little result while the rest of these issues were bubbling along. Now they are playing a bit of catchup. In no way do you diminish the skill, talents, energy, and abilities of all the people that hold power in america in various capacities, but there are you mentioned bob gates, hillary clinton, david petraeus, diplomats, military people, people who have over a period of years have had a variety of experiences and a variety of personal relationships where they can speak to people in confidence. If the president thought this would do any good he would do it. You wonder why he does not bring together a sort of solarium sort of in the tradition of George Mckinnon to make sure he had a take on where the world was and the demands of the moment were. No one who sits in new york in a Television Studio should ever suggest what the president might know or do, but you do hope in a moment of clear crisis, that he is getting the wisest counsel possible. And the broadest. Exactly. That takes into account those people who have relationships with a lot of people who wish us well but at the same time have a very difficult, hard, realistic view of where the world is and what the possibilities are, what the challenge is. I think thats right. One concern that people have about president obama is that hes very comfortable with a fairly small group of people hes known for a very long time. President bush was the same way bush 43 was the same way. At this late stage, its hard to bring people in the four this type of project because you have a lot of people interested that are thinking already about this so the timing is not ideal. On top of that, you have the fact that these issues are moving so much more quickly and playing out in public so much more vividly that it is much harder to imagine what American Power would look like. Finally you have a president and president obama who recognizes, and has said so at various moments, that the u. S. Will not be the kind of sole superpower that it was 20 or 30 years ago. You have simply too many other rising powers. China, india, brazil, and others. Hes comfortable with the concept of sharing power and sharing some burden and is frustrated by the fact that the chinese will not step up and say this is our problem and we will work towards a solution as well. He is sort of caught at this uncomfortable moment where the u. S. Recognizes the influence of others but cannot get them to act at least in ways we think would be consistent with our broader interest and perhaps their broader interest. David sanger, always good to have you. Great to be back with you. Maggie gyllenhaal is here. She stars in a new series on Sundance Television called the honorable woman. She finds herself at the crux of the israelipalestinian conflict. They say her character is unlike a modern woman we have seen before on any screen. It goes on to say that her performance all but the size description. Heres a look at the honorable woman. You know who i am. You know who i represent. Not quite the woman. Have you ever lied to me, nathaniel . No. She will never find out. You want to meet him. Is your secret safe . We cannot be compromised. We have already been. I know your secret. Youre going to tell me everything. We must be very careful. Tell no one. Whatever it is they want. She also stars alongside Michael Fassbender in frank, in independent theaters now. Im pleased to have Maggie Gyllenhaal back at the table. You said you are almost more pleased about this than anything youve ever done. Yeah, i think thats true. Because . A lot of it has to do with the experience of making it. On some level, just the scope of it, being eight hours long and ive never worked on anything like that that if me the opportunity to express so much. And fully develop a character. What does that mean . We are used to watching things that are two hours long and we think we have developed things pretty fully but in this case its almost like a novel. You can go off on a tangent, something thats happening in the emotional life of someone that you are playing but it does not have to necessarily be a huge part of the plot. It can just be something that gets explored and left alone. There are pieces of you that makes sense, pieces of you that dont. Its the less rational way of looking at it and really moved me for the way a work as an actress. Who was your character . On the most surface level, the daughter of a zionist gunrunner who was killed in front of her when she was a little girl. She inherent his company and subverts it. She lays communication cable between israel and palestine and works towards reconciliation. I think shes really trying to do something honorable, but what does that mean . Its a very complicated. I think shes also very broken and confused. Shes like all of us. Shes trying to do good and often does not know what that means. Have you looked at the middle east different because you were so deeply involved in this story about the israelipalestinian conflict . I knew as much about it as someone who does their best to read the newspaper. I have two little kids. I think its probably difficult for most people to watch whats happening and not feel emotional about it. The other thing its done is i feel a different kind of compassion. I never felt like i was on one side or the other. Peace does not take a side but lays out elements of the conflict. My compassion, i think has also deepened from having worked on it. Compassion for people caught up in the conflict . Both sides, the history, the inheritance, the people that make people act cruelly or violently. The baroness played by Maggie Gyllenhaal sitting with a woman named attica, a trusted and loyal employee of the stein family. Its ok, its ok. Can we get you something to drink . [crying] i cant do it. Yes, you can. We are strong, you and i. Theyll find theyll never find out. I promise. Never. Never. I was telling you during the break that it clearly did not reflect it there, but the notion that the casting of you by the director was he wanted someone to have a cool exterior, and intellectual presence. He saw that in you beyond your persona. Hugo said to me, i remember when i met him, it took a minute for us to understand each other. In the end, ive never had a more inspiring, Collaborative Experience with any director in my life. We had lunch and he talked to me about doing it. He said i know you can do the intellectual, powerful elements of her but i wonder about the emotional aspect of her. And i was thinking, i dont know. I just kind of took that in. There are moments, times in my life when i feel powerful. There are lots and lots of times when i dont. I dont know. I guess in the end, she and that in the most emotionally vulnerable character ive ever played in my life. Shes smart. Sometimes she feels totally aloft. Shes sexy then totally not sexy. Then very vulnerable. On one hand and then on the other its in different proportions, different ratios. I relate to having all of that, having somebody say to me before they know me, like hugo, i feel like you can take care of the intellectual elements of it. Sitting at the rehearsal table right now working on the real thing, thinking i cannot even begin am i an equal to have conversation with him at a rehearsal table . You can have so many feelings about yourself in the same year, week, day. Im sure hes looking for someone, i assume, is for someone to understand what hes written and understand and bring to the table and interpretation that hes probably excited to see. Its really interesting. This is all a part of this same hombre station but you go into a project like the honorable woman which is eight hours, superfast television, so many scenes every day. On some level you have to feel like you are an expert because you just have to get through. You cannot mess around. In order to have a real experience and really learn something, see what happens in the midst of the scene, you also have to go in not knowing at all whats going to happen. Its so interesting to me to have to work on this and then start rehearsal where you are totally allowed to be a beginner and not have any idea where you are finding each other. It is so hard to sit with people you a respect and say, i dont know yet what this scene is about. Do you like to choose things in which you know there is an element of risk for you . You know it is a growing of vehicle. If you are to go do a play with tom stoppard, you know that its going to be a challenge for you. You know because of his use of language, complexity of character. And its a play about love. Who knows anything about love . Sex, marriage, all of those things. I do. I think its more interesting to watch somebody actually learning something than to watch someone pretends that they are learning something. I am often attracted to things that require that i have to learn something order to do them well. Or maybe to do them at all. Just thinking about doing chekhov with my husband, we just did that in a tiny 200 seat theater, but sometimes you dont even know what the words mean, but the scenes are about at all. Some of them dont make any sense until you have learned something about yourself or the play. That was certainly true with the honorable woman. There were definitely places where we did not shoot them in order. Sometimes we would shoot parts of episode 1, 5, 7. At the very end, i think it was just luck or the stars aligning or something but i did not know at all what those scenes at the end were about until we shot them. I still could not tell you if this is what they are about and thats what it needs but i experienced them and i learned something making them that i do not think i would have been able to learn if we had shot them right upfront. Are there more roles for strong, interesting women . I dont know. Everyone asks me that but im not really the right person to ask. In some ways, if you like when i was younger i was focused on the roles that were for the sort of confused, growing, younger woman. I just get focused on the ones that are for me. Certainly i read some that dont feel like a reality and do not resonate with me out all. What resonates with you . When there is something in it that i dont understand you have to learn to pull it off. The real thing, there are all of these questions about love, what it means to be a woman my age, what it means to be married, what it means to be faithful, what is sex, what is love . Im interested in all of that. Im not saying im going to figure it out, but im in the territory. And add new dimension. And the best writing and this is true of the honorable woman let me put it this way bad writing or ok writing, there is one way through the scene and if i do not reach for that rung and jump over the obstacle we wont get through it and it will not make any sense. Thats a limiting.