From our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. We begin this evening from paris with the philosopher and author who said that france faces its churchillian moment. Today, a group claiming to back Islamic State hacked their accounts. One message said, american soldiers, we are coming. It happened as president obama was giving a speech on cyber security. There are many things to talk about and i begin with this question. After all of your experience and thinking about antisemitism, in thinking about the radical extremist islamic threat, the book that you wrote about daniel pearl, tell me what france in and paris have gone through and the implications as you see them. France has clearly been under attack. An attack on cartoonists, great journalists, heroes of freedom of the press on one side and the attack on jews on the other side. There is a double attack that france had to face last week. This is a new situation and the world felt it. 43 chiefs of state came to paris as a General Assembly of united nations, walking in the streets in paris in solidarity. The situation is very hot here and very hard. I do not think it can be compared to september 11. It is Something Else that really heavy on press and on jews. What do you think the consequences are for france, the west, for the challenge of radical extremism . The general situation is that it is Global Attack. Global war. Launched by these people of al qaeda at which is the same. And they launched a Global Attack on our values and the west in general and democracy. The new event, the real event of yesterday is that democracy is back. Frances back. Europe is back and they are backed by america. When john kerry expresses these words of solidarity in french language, when he said, i am charlie in french, this was for me and a lot of french people a real great moment. The last time in history that this happened was president roosevelt. November 8 1942, during the war, there was this beach in this speech in london. In the two situations, american secretary of state expressing solidarity to france in french it is proof of brotherhood alliance, solidarity. And also a sign that what we are facing is really serious. Did they take notice that no high american official was there with the chancellor of germany and the Prime Minister of israel and the Prime Minister of britain and so many other heads of state. With a concerned that the same from america was not represented . It was represented by mr. Holder who is the representative. Until the last minute, there was a great expectation and rumors that barack obama could be there. And there was a little slight disappointment. But wait a minute, charlie. Barack obama went to our embassy in washington. John kerry again said in his nonnative french language. The friendship is molded in the good iron of brotherhood. There is no doubt on that and i think there is no serious french woman or man who doubts today that america is with us and as we wherewith america on september and met 11th. On september 11, there was le monde saying we are all americans. I have the feeling that you are thinking and saying, we are all french. It is a sort of sad and tragic reciprocity. They are saying we are all charlie. Everybody is saying, yes, i am charlie, all over the world. Like charlie chaplin, like charlie rose. Like many charlie. This motto has become such a widespread world, all of the planet, this means something and it means what . It means that my opinion for the first time, the free world took the Real Dimension of what is happening. Since years and decades, we said that terrorism is not a real threat. We say that terrorism was a fruit of misery and of bad social conditions. We said the attack of terrorism was not a real war today. For the first time, i think that there is a consensus, there is an agreement all over the world to say and to stand that is a real threat that is threatening civilization itself. This is what means the spreading of i am charlie all over the world. In lebanon, south africa burundi. There are groups that say, i am charlie. It is the proof of this that for the first time terrorism is taken as it is which is a new fascism. Which is a new form of naziism in the 21st century. What did you mean when you said the churchillian moment of frances republic . I mean that we need in france leadership who says two things or even three. Number one, it will be a long and difficult battle. Number two, we have to keep our cold blood. Number three, we have to avoid mistakes. Which were committed by our american friends under george bush at the moment of the patriot act and exceptional measures. Churchillian, i mean a real battle, cold blood, and preventing antiliberty laws. This is what is achieved now. Will there be a great debate in france about whether there was enough intelligence and whether this could have been prevented if there were more and better surveillance measures . I do not think so. There is a general feeling that a lot was avoided, that militarist attacks before this one where were possible and were eradicated at the very root. There is this general feeling. No, today, what was really great in the streets of paris yesterday, you showed images on your program. What was great was to see these people standing very proudly with pride, with honesty and decency, altogether, right and left, all origin, all creeds there was no red france and blue france. There was only the United States of france. These sort of moments happened very rarely. Very seldom in the history of a great nation. The last time that there were 2 Million People in paris was a funeral of victor hugo at the end of the 19th century. Never after that. There is a union, a unity provisional around the victims the jews and journalists and the government in order to face the jihadist attacks which is more generally considered in france as being this fascism which i call it myself. Since years and years, youre a you remember when i was on your table, i missed it about daniel pearl. You suggested that muslims have to denounce extremists. They have to step forward in and loudly and vocally denounce, do you expect that to take place, the people of france, all religious beliefs understood that moment. Muslims around the world have to and have heard the message that they must cast out those who use the prophet mohammed as a rallying cry for some evil did deed they want to do. Of course. First thing, we cannot say as we said for so long that jihadism has nothing to do with islam. I know people say that it is not true. Jihadism has something to do with islam. There is a jihadist interpretation of islam, number one. Number two, this interpretation has to be battled, has to be fought by others. It has to be proved that it is not the only one, that it is a minority representation of islam. Who can do that . I will not do that. Francois hollande cannot do that. The only ones who can say that there is a battle inside islam between jihadist and lighter islam are muslims themselves. That is why the french muslims , they have a real difficult task which is to say, which is to open the wound, which is to open the debate, and which is to fight again the jihadists interpretation of islam. The only real serious clash of civilization is the clash inside islam. The clash inside islam between moderates and jihadists. This battle has to be led by muslims themselves. They began to do it these days , and yesterday this huge monster demonstration was the occasion, the rendezvous for a lot of french people, of muslim creed to say for the first time really and loudly, not in our name. Not in my name. To preach murder under the name of god is to transform got into god into a murderer. A lot of french muslims said that yesterday and this also is a date in french modern and contemporary history. A couple of political points in france. How do the french people perceive Francois Hollandes handling of this tragedy . They perceive it well, and this is a general feeling that is expressed everywhere in the streets, on the tv, on the internet, even the adversaries of Francois Hollande must confess that he handled this in a right way. Maybe in a great way. Again, cold blood, and feeling and will of national unity. Not pushing his own agenda smart and elegant. There is a general feeling that hollande behaves in a brave way. The same for men well manuel. The way he went to this jewish market the night the murder happened was a good sign. There is a lot of jews today in france who think about leaving and who think that israel might be a safer place then france for them. The Prime Minister of france said, france without the jews would no longer be france. France without jews is not france. This is what he said and this again is a real good point. Not considering political belongings and politicians quarrels. What about the far right, what about le pen and those who argue an antiimmigrant message . Again as it happens often expect to be proven wrong. Everyone believed that Marine Le Pen and the extreme right would take advantage of the situation. It was a general belief that le pen would say you see and she would take benefit out of it. It proves wrong. Le pen is for the moment completely out of the game. She made the whole mess, completely stupid saying that she wanted to be invited to the demonstration as if it were a party. Mrs. Le pen probably mixing [indiscernible] in vienna. Where she was a few years ago. You go with your heart and your feet. She said i was not invited. And as i am not invited, i will not go. And she went in a city far from paris where she feels at home to make her own sad and small defeat. She puts herself out of the game. The miracle was to see this crowd which had nothing to do with these xenophobia, hyper nationalistic feelings, which it is true, which are very present in the debate in the last weeks, but they were with us yesterday in the streets of paris. She will come back, of course. When her father who is still the president of the party, he made again a big mistake. He said i am not charlie. I am not charlie. Ok, youre not charlie so go to this little city in the province of france. They are out of the game. Quite unexpectedly, but they are. What do you think the agenda is for france tonight . The agenda for france now is, number one, to protect the jews who are clearly targeted. It is sad to arrive to this point, but it is a situation today in paris, and france, the synagogues, the Jewish Schools are guarded by policemen or soldiers. It is sad but it is unfortunately necessary. Number two, they have, and they are doing it. They have to dismantle all these networks of terrorists and jihadists consisting of women and men who went to syria and who came back with the program with the agenda of killing jews, killing policemen, and killing journalists. They have to dismantle all that. And they have to reassure the selfesteem of france which has already begun with a beautiful and great crowd of yesterday sunday. How do they dismantle the networks of terror . In all democracies, it is the same. The same problem, which is to fight enemies of democracy with democratic means and not fall in the trap of using terrorist means in order to fight terrorists. This is one thing. But this being considered, there is a lot, i cannot say more but there is a lot of intelligence at work. There is a real now watching of the internet. A lot of these things, the terrorist network and so on went through the deep web. There is now a new culture in all the western democracy which allows and permits to dig in this deep web. There is a lot of ways. The law exists, i do not think we need more laws than the laws which already exist. We will see. In a way, the zero risk does not exist. The most powerful country in the world with great agencies like america could not prevent september 11 which is the biggest terrorist attack ever seen. So maybe france will not foresee and will not prevent a new terrorist attack. This is possible, but what i can tell you is that the life of the jihadists in france will become more and more difficult in the coming weeks. And when does the next issue of Charlie Hebdo come out . It comes out tomorrow. This is the sad and beautiful paradox of the situation. This little magazine, very tiny nearly confidential. It was begging for help in the last weeks because his circulation was going dramatically down. They will make a new issue which will be printed 3 million copies. In many languages. I think that in the sky, in paradise, between paradise and a little lower where they are, they must probably laugh and laugh a lot about the situation. 3 million copies. Yesterday in paris when you saw the man of jordan saying i am charlie. They never knew that Charlie Hebdo ever existed. This is a sort of trick of history, up in the sky, they must laugh a lot about this trick. Trick of history. History called tragedy, history called situation, and this piece of humor, humor which is well in the manner of Charlie Hebdo. Thank you for joining us. Thank you. We will be back with Jeffrey Goldberg. Stay with us. More than one Million People gathered in paris yesterday to march in unity against the threat of radical islamist extremists. And to commemorate the attack. It was a historic moment. Over 40 leaders walked arm in arm through paris joining president hollande in a show of solidarity. From washington, Jeffrey Goldberg just returned from paris. Welcome. Thank you. You went over there because of the story or were you there i was wandering around europe working on another related story that will come out in the atlantic but paris got caught hot very fast. We have a lot to talk about. Give me your sense of yesterday. If you were there or because you saw it on television. It was amazing. I put aside whether the u. S. Should have been represented at a higher level. I think it should have been. It is quite a remarkable occurrence. I dont know if it is that the french are more quick to the streets and americans but it is the equivalent of Something Like 5 million or 6 million americans marching against terrorism. It is quite something. I spent i was there for about four days following the first attack. I have been going back and forth so i have gotten the sense even , before the Charlie Hebdo attack that nerves are on edge. I hope to do that reporter thing i hate to do that reporter thing of talking about what the mood of an entire country is but there is this feeling of semisiege going on where it has a very middle eastern feel in the sense that people are suspicious of packages on subways, some people are avoiding taking public transportation. There is a general fear that another shoe is going to drop and after the second attack, which i covered the kosher supermarket attack, there is quite obviously not a feeling that that is it. There is this overwhelming feeling that more is to come. Everybody is gripped by the notion that all it takes is two or three semicompetent but very dedicated jihadists to create havoc for an entire country. Where do you think we are headed . That is very tough question because we are not really headed in a good direction. Certainly for the Jewish Community of france, they are headed into complete siege. Theyre going to be soldiers, thousands of soldiers guarding Jewish Schools which raises the question about whether normative jewish life can continue in france. We are heading toward the growing popularity of socalled lone wolf attacks or semilone wolf attacks and it really is amazing when you think about it. I was talking to one senior frenchs official who said, we are getting blamed for not tracking these guys but it takes 20 skilled surveillance officers to follow one person. We have got north of 900, maybe in the thousands of people in syria, other people who are radicalized at home without ever going to syria. So you are looking at a situation which you will probably see unfortunately more attacks, you will see more crackdowns, broad crackdowns but the government is seized at the idea that life not only for the Jewish Population but for life at large is going to change and become constricted and curtailed in ways that they do not want to see. There was this story, you know the man well, Prime Minister netanyahu may have said inviting any french jews if they want to come to israel, that they can come. They are already going. That is the issue. There is tension between the Israeli Government and french government over this. The french government believe very strongly, and i had a long conversation with the Prime Minister of france about this in the french government is seized with the idea that it must protect the Jewish Population , because the whole idea of the french republic, the french revolution he says was built in part on the idea of the emancipation of the jews. That jews would have National Equality in france. And so this is an acute challenge not only for security people but the idea of france. They are bothered when israeli Officials Say france is not safe for jews, come to israel. The problem for france is that many jews are going to israel. I have been traveling back and forth for months, i have not met a single jewish person in france who says at least the thought is not at the back of his or her mind. 7000 out of a population of 480,000. 700,000 moved last year. There is an estimate that 10,000 will go this year. These are large numbers and the Prime Minister of france told me he believes that france will stop being france if 100,000 jews leave. He said it jews flee the republic will be a failure. If one hundred thousand jews leave, france will no longer be france. This goes to the heart of the idea that france is a place that is safe for everyone but in particular, a community that has historically been persecuted. That is why there is so much sensitivity around the jewish question because of french behavior during world war ii collaborationist behavior, jews were murdered along with the collaboration of french offici