From our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. Bill bratton is here. He is the Police Commissioner for new york city. Thats the second time he has held the post. He served previously under mayor rudy giuliani. He was also commissioner for boston and l. A. Police department. Crime in new york city continued to fall in 2014. Homicides fell to the lowest rate since 1963. Yet the nypd confronts challenges. Thousands of new yorkers have taken to the streets to protest against the nypds approach to policing. They responded to the Staten Island grand jurys decision not to prosecute the death of eric garner. There has been a widening rift between police, Police Unions, and the mayor, who expressed solidarity with some protesters. Tensions peaked after the targeting targeted killing of two officers last month. Offices turned their back on the mayor at funerals. They also had a significant slowdown in arrests and summonses. The latest numbers released monday showed enforcement activity is rising, but still short of last years levels. The Washington Post wrote the spirit of communitypolice partnership has been damaged in new york and around the country, but the best model for how to heal the racial and critical divide is brattons own experience. Im pleased to have bill bratton back on this program. Good to have you here. The first time we have had a chance to talk about you in a job you know very well, from not only new york, but boston and l. A. Does it differ in different cities, the role of the men and women in charge of the police . Sure. Thats what makes it so exciting for me. It is no deja vu all over again. Now in my second time as Police Commissioner, 20 years between the first time and the second time, it is all different in many respects. Thats why i enjoy it so much. I like the challenges it presents. When you heard mayor deblasio might be thinking about you, this was a job you welcomed a return to . I never expected i would get an opportunity to return to it. After i left policing in 1996 and went into the private sector, i had not expected to return to the public sector. There was the opening in los angeles in 2002, and i heard the clarion call, and off i went. You were there for seven years. Hard to believe, where the hell that time went. What about police work captivates you . The fact it is so impactful that you can impact everybody. More so than almost any other profession. If you get it right, the impact is so profound. New york city, 1994, 7. 5 Million People living in the city. By making the city that much safer, all 7. 5 million of them benefited. The 50 million tourists benefited. Los angeles, 2002, a city tour torn by racial violence for most of the last 50 years. The opportunity to try to heal that violence by using the police as the healing tool rather than the flashpoint for all the anger from the worst race riots in american history. How can you not succumb to that type of challenge . You have been in the forefront of using modern technology. Some of it you designed here in your previous term. Yet at the same time, it seems to me essential in every community for the police to have a relationship with the areas in which they serve. Those are not in contradiction is that still true . It is still true. I frequently talk about the curator of the metropolitan police of london in the early 1800s, and later became british prime minister. He had nine principles of policing. When you read them today, they are even more relevant today than they were 150 years ago. The first one, the basic mission for which the police exists is to prevent, i emphasize prevent, crime and disorder. The other eight principles go on to talk about how it should be done. When you talk about Technology Technology is an enhancement of those nine principles. For example, the body camera issue which is so much in the Public Discourse today. Body cameras have the ability to really help bridge some of the gap between police and particularly the minority communities, where there is so much tension throughout america. Cardiff part of the racial divide still divides us, and police tend to be right in the middle of all that. Clearly last year. That technology is going to be able to really remove some of the tension between he said, she said. It will be able to validate one side versus the other. So technology, if properly used, can be a great boon to policing. One of the exciting things coming back to policing in 2014 is the World Technology i get to work with. No Police Department has as much as the nypd. 2015 will be the year of technology in the nypd. We are going to change the face of policing in new york city effectively change the face of policing in america this year. What is the relationship between the police and the police union . When you say the police and the police union, Police Officers or Police Management all across the board. I will speak to my relationship. I always had very good relationships, sometimes excellent relationships, with these unions and the six Police Organizations i led. I never had a vote of noconfidence. Oftentimes it is the badge of honor as a police chief. I have always been able to walk a middle road, where we have been able to agree or disagree professionally. It has never gotten personal. I work very hard at that. Even now, in the midst of the contretemps in new york city between the Police Unions and the mayor, one positive at this juncture is the relationships i formed with the unions over the past year, helping to weather the storm as the mayor and the unions try to find Common Ground they can stand on so the disagreements of the last number of months that have boiled to the surface and boiled over, hopefully because of the relationships i have with the mayor i might be able to serve as a bridge in trying to deal with the rift, the unfortunate rift that developed between them. What is at the heart of that rift . A number of things, charlie. Theres no one thing. A succession of issues. The New York Times had an an analysis of it. A number of things going on in the administration, some appointments on the part of the mayor that the unions took umbrage at. The mayors wifes chief of staff, a woman the unions from the beginning did not like because of a relationship she had. Who had a felony conviction. A felony conviction. It began to poison the well. Something i ended up involved in, the mayor had a wellintentioned effort to deal with the controversy after the death of mr. Garner, the socalled chokehold death. On Staten Island, brought a lot of ministers and Community Leaders from Staten Island, and also the reverend al sharpton into that meeting. The placement of the seating the photograph, the very famous photograph of the mayor and mr. Sharpton what did that say to people . Particularly to the cops, they went crazy, as well as particularly the tablets in new the tabloids in new york, the daily news, both of those papers hate sharpton. So the idea of putting him on seemingly on even footing with the Police Mission or, it became the Police Commissioner it became a cause celebre. The Police Unions began to have difficulties with the mayor and it gave them another nail to drive into the coffin. Even for myself, it caused me no end of problems, in the sense of friends, professional acquaintances. As much as mr. Sharpton has become a spokesperson, probably the most wellknown spokesperson for the africanamerican community, the africanamerican Civil Rights Community on the one hand, on the other hand he is anathema to police in particular. Certainly tuesday tabloid media. Two the tabloid media. Because of the early history of his . Particularly the controversies around his Financial Issues theres no shortage of reasons why you either like or dislike him. That incident was really played up so significantly, and continues to be referenced in any analysis of what led to the breakdown of relationships. What is your role . I see my role in the midst of all the storm and controversy, to keep moving the Police Department forward so that it delivers effective services, trying wherever i can to work with the mayor to bridge these differences and difficulties with the unions, but also to bridge the differences and difficulties with the communities that quite clearly voted him into office, significantly around the issue of frayed relationships with the Police Department. In other words, these minority communities in particular supported the candidate deblasio in part because they believed he would represent their point of view about Law Enforcement . Principally, the issue of stop, question, and frisk, which under the previous administration, my predecessor ray kelly, mike bloomberg, in the election in which mr. De blasio came from literally last place to first place and was elected, significantly it was around the issue of stop question, and frisk, which really came to the forefront in that election. His position, one i supported, the practice of stop, question and frisk expanded too much the previous several years. Like going to a doctor who treats you with chemotherapy if he gives you too much, he will kill you, even as hes trying to cure you. Even as crime goes down dramatically, stop, question and frisk numbers went up to radically. It was the belief that one was causing the other. I think mayor bloomberg, who is passionate on the issue of guns and reducing gun violence, an antigun crusader, became convinced that one of the ways to control gun violence was to do stop, question, and frisk. Unfortunately, thats 10 of the reason why they stopped people. They stopped people for a whole. Of myriad of other issues. But the defense of stop, question, and frisk as a principal means of getting guns off the street, that gave the New York Times and others including mayor de blasio, the thought that if you get so few guns per thousand of stops, it creates a disparate impact. Racial profiling, if you will. Your viewership, a lot of this might not be easy to understand i think it is. I think it is important, and easy to understand, because there was ferguson, missouri and a whole lot of other places where they are dealing with this issue. The relationship between police and community. Maybe a different community, but the issues seem to be i like using a medical comparison, because everybody understands medical issues. I use the comstat process analogy we developed in the 1990s. It is about timely, accurate intelligence, to quickly identify emerging patterns and trends. If you go to a doctor and you are not feeling well, he does a whole series of tests, determines you have a cancer he does a biopsy, then he will treat it with radiation or chemotherapy. The secret is not to overradiate you, not to use too much chemo. He will make you sicker. The use of stop, question, and frisk in this city made the patient, particularly the africanamerican patient bearing the brunt of the treatment they felt more aggrieved. Its interesting, because both bloomberg as the mayor and commissioner kelly, in a lot of opinion polls, rated very highly. Commissioner kelly would go to africanamerican churches on sundays, and was rated very highly. But his Police Department and its policies were the cause of great consternation in that same community. There was a disconnect. That was the background of the election. And de blasio effectively road rode that horse to victory. When i got on the horse with him i believe that stop question, and frisk was being done in excessive quantities. In terms of how you look at stop and frisk in terms of stop, question, and frisk, one of the things that is misunderstood in the city, many opponents who are against it thought the mayor was going to do away with it. You cannot do away with it. It is a basic tool of american policing. The challenge is to do it inappropriate amounts to the issues you are facing. Last year, we did fewer than 50,000 stops, that we doubled but we almost doubled the number of stops that resulted in arrests. Reinforcing that the stops were being done appropriately. And the fact that last year was the safest year in the history of the city in terms of overall crime. With 600,000 fewer stops, crime continued to go down. The were predicting crime would go through the roof. I joked that when the mayor was elected, the four horsemen of the apocalypse would come charging into new york armageddon was arriving. It didnt happen. Do you think the Police Officers and the police union understand the mayor . Do they have a perception, then, that you find unfair and unreasonable . The person i deal with, and i spent a couple hours a week, we have a meeting every week, me and my Senior Leadership team and him. On a friday. A friday meeting. He is much more pragmatic than dogmatic, i think. His progressive ideas, the idea that he is unabashedly to the left and progressive, but he is not dogmatic in reference to looking at issues. An example of the pragmatism the broken windows philosophy, which i am a strong promoter of, a strong defender of, the mayor, much to the chagrin of his support base supports broken windows, and likes stop question, and frisk appropriately applied in the right amounts. A lot of his supporters dont understand they want broken windows done away with. They dont fully appreciate how important it is to safety and security. This is an example of his pragmatism. Hes really committed to trying to find the right balance in the city. Not just for his base, but for all new yorkers. Thats what you tried to explain to the police. Thats the man we are dealing with. A great part of my Social Circle in the upper east side, a lot of my Social Circle and friends are not particularly supportive of the mayor. In some instances, im able to make the case for him, because i can speak from my experience. When do you criticize him . The issues of criticism would be, publicly im not going to criticize. I work for him. But if i have an issue or a difference, one of the things about the relationship is i am free to basically offer that advice and counsel. If you are comfortable doing that, he is open to that type of input, if you will. When you tell the police it is not a good idea to turn your back, that a funeral is a place for grieving, not grievance, your eloquent words. Does that resonate . At first, that was heartfelt for me. Apart from any mayor or any governor or any president , thats how i feel about my profession. The expression of disrespect, it is not place for it. Thats why i wrote the memo that i did, encouraging for the second funeral, lets not repeat the mistake of the actions at the first. The good news was, my understanding is at the larger funeral we had 23,000 at the first funeral for officer ramos, and 28,000, probably the largest in the history of america for a Police Officers death. Several hundred in the crowd of 28,000 two turned their backs. Some news reports would have you believe the vast majority were doing it. Between the first funeral and the second funeral my understanding of it, the numbers were much less than they were in the first funeral, which i felt good about. But i would have felt much better if there had been no turning of the backs at all. But thats nothing i can control. I can seek to influence, which i sought to do with my own words. Even though the officers are in uniform, they are there on their own time. My ability to say you will not do that i dont have that. Even if i had that, i would not use that power. The mayor is anxious to heal this breach. Definitely. So much writing on healing the breach. He likes cops. He understands the importance. He is really working very hard to understand the grievances, to understand the issues. Theres a lot going on behind the scenes to meet some of those grievances and those issues. It is lost in the fog of war. There is so much churning of issues. It might take a while to let the dust settle and let people take a look around. People are beginning to speak to each other. Theres a lot going on in the sense of dialogue behindthescenes. We have had plenty of meetings. The public needs to see that we are trying to talk with each other. I used an expression that i think will resonate with you. The maasai tribes in africa we see you. I heard this expression from an africanamerican unity leader in los angeles. Suite alleysweet alice. She said to my wife and i, you know why we like you, chief, you see us. I love that expression. I like to think one of the things i learned a long time ago, when you talk to people look them right in the eye. Its fascinating of people how people respond. Sometimes they look away, but the eyes come back. That is an african custom of the maasai. They look you right in the eye. My sense is the mayor feels like he has gone as far as he should, without as much reciprocity . Give a sense of how you feel. My dealings with him, my interactions with the unions, he has treated the department extraordinarily well in terms of resources. In terms of support of me. He always speaks very highly of me in public and private settings. He speaks highly about the police. What he does question and challenge is some of the practices and procedures. So, its amazing how the dialogue is everybodys hearing something different. In terms of the challenge moving ahead, it is to get everybody to effectively be at the same place. They are not hearing the same thing. What do you mean by that . It is a sense of saying that we are trying to reform these practices the cops did not enjoy participating in. The cops hated being pushed for more stop, question, and frisk activity. Part of the resentment is that the administration changed, but there is still fear. It is still here. The new inspector general, federal oversight, the racial profiling bill, the new city council they feel all of that burden is now placed on them and they were not the cause of the reasons they were created. They were not the cause of the