Announcer from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. Al Vernon Jordan is an eminent investment banker and longer. Lawyer. He was a pioneer in the momentous civil rights struggles in the 1960s and 1970s. He escorted Charlene Hunter through jeering mob to integrate the university of georgia in 1961, was then field director for the georgia naacp, was executive director of the United Negro College fund, and from 19711981 was president of the National Urban league. As america celebrates the 50th anniversary of the selma alabama march and bloody sunday, which led to the Voting Rights act, its a pleasure to have Vernon Jordan here. And you for joining us. Thank you for joining us. Vernon and you for having me. Al how important was selma to the civil rights struggle . Vernon selma was a crucial struggle. It was a moment where it took us that giant step, because selma led to the voter rights act of 1965. There is a historic notion that the Voting Rights act of 1965 was passed by the congress here in washington dc. The fact of the matter is, the Voting Rights act of 1965 was written on the road from selma to montgomery. And all washington did was to formalize our information the to informality to put the wherefores and the therefores, the periods and semicolons. But the actual law was written by those marches from selma to montgomery. It is an affirmation of the notion that government is, by its very nature, a reacting entity, not an initiative entity. Government when Lyndon Johnson was before the government was responding to the marches from selma to montgomery. But the law was written on that 40 mile route. Al that march took place two weeks after bloody sunday and was led by dr. Martin luther king. Today a lot of americans know dr. King was a great orator. They have hurt the speeches. Heard the speeches. What kind of leader was he . Vernon well, he was strategic. He was courageous. He understood that we could not do it alone. He wanted blacks, whites, he wanted the entire community doing it, but he also knew that confrontation was necessary. And that is what selma was. Al who was e. D. Nixon, and what is his significance . Vernon he was one of the Unsung Heroes of the Civil Rights Movement. When rosa parks was arrested she did not call Martin Luther king. She called nixon, who was the president of the local branch of the naacp. That is who rosa parks called. And the lawyer that e. D. Nixon called was clifford, a white lawyer, he was the first lawyer to see after rosa parks. And then after she sat down, got arrested, and the movement begin to go, it was e. D. Nixon who understood that this circumstance was beyond his capabilities, and it was e. D. Nixon who called the new pastor at dexter Avenue Church and said reverend king, this is e. D. Net nixon, president of the local branch of the naacp, and we need a leader who is colleged. Al ed nixon was not colleged. He was not. He understood that the circumstance that they were confronting was beyond what he thought his capabilities were, and so he called martin. So martin said to him, brother nixon, i would have to think about what you are asking me to do. And nixon responded, you best have thought about it by 8 00, because the meeting is in dexter Avenue Church. The point being that e. D. Nixons power at the local level in montgomery was Strong Enough that he could convene a meeting at dexter Avenue Church without having to discuss it with the pastor, because his relationship was with the chairman of the deacon board. Al an essential venue to the Movement Really was the churches. Wasnt it . Vernon everything in the black community, if you think about it, started in the church. Morehouse college was founded in a Baptist Church in augusta, georgia. All of the traditionally black colleges have a relationship with the africanamerican episcopal church, Baptist Church, the episcopal church. So the church has been the grounding place for our community. It was the gathering place. It was the one place, even in slavery, that you felt free. And it was the one place, i learned a long time ago, where when you got to church, you were somebody. You may have been a yard man all week, but when you got to st. Paul ame church, in my case, in atlanta, you were somebody. Whether you are a chauffeur or doorman or whatever. So the church has always been the key to our success in the black community. Al vernon, you later became the head of the Voter Education project. You covered the whole south. Were alabama and mississippi the worst, or was it the same everywhere . Vernon they were the worst, but that does not say that georgia and South Carolina were good. They were all bad. And they were all resistant. Nobody gave in. Al as we have this 50th anniversary of that historic march and historic day, one of the contexts in the movie selma, you and some of your associates and friends had bought copies of that movie and distributed it. Vernon i was recruited by bill lewis, my partner at lazard, the chairman of American Express and a group of friends, decided that young people, high school kids, should see selma. I agree. They called me and said, send a check. My daughter right here in washington called and said send your check, so i supported new york and washington. And every one of my nine grandchildren has either seen it or will see it, and we will discuss it, because it is a watershed moment in black history and the Civil Rights Movement, and they ought to understand it. Its not a perfect movie. Its not the ultimate documentation of the challenges of the Civil Rights Movement but the message primarily is in my judgment that there are many Edmund Pettus bridges yet to be crossed. So we ought to understand the first one. Al but you knew personally two of the central figures in that Martin Luther king and Lyndon Baines johnson. Did it look like the king that you knew . Vernon the johnson that was per portrayed was not the johnson that i knew. Al but it was king . Vernon yes. Out al no movie is perfect. The only point about the johnson thing, it depicted him as a reluctant supporter of the Voting Rights act. Vernon i do not believe that. Al that he became a total convert. Vernon he understood what he was doing. He called Richard Russell and said we are going to past this bill. And democrats are going to lose the south as a result. Look at the senate, the house, and johnson was right. But he did not back down. Al the other thing that has occurred in recent years, and we are talking about the 1965 Voting Rights act, it was captured brilliantly in the movie when the woman played by Oprah Winfrey went in to the judge or whoever was there and said read the preamble to the constitution. How many county judges are there in alabama . And then he said, name them. That is the kind of test they had to go through. But the Voting Rights act made a huge difference. Today we look at legislatures texas, north carolina, where they are coming back. Brennan vernon may i tell you a story . Wilcox county, alabama. Its the first day in Wilcox County that the Voting Rights act is being implemented. 2000 black people are in line at 7 00 in the morning. In that line is a 90yearold black man, dressed in his sunday best. At about noon time he gets up to the registrar, and the registrar says, you are 90 years old. The old man said yes. Well, if you are 90 years old, what took you so long to get here . And the old man said, what took me so long to get here is my he, my philosophy, all my life to never get in the way of trouble coming. And the registrar said, if that is your philosophy, why are you here today . And the old man said, im here today because trouble aint acoming like it used to be. You know what trouble coming meant to him. You could get shot, you could lose your job. Many other things could happen to you. But trouble was not coming because of the voter rights act. Now the problem is today, if you look at the alabama case and what the Supreme Court did to the voting provision, the trouble is coming again, like it used to did. Voter identification laws in the north and in the south. Al do you think there is a racial motive in some of that . Vernon absolutely. And some of these republicans have actually said that. In michigan not michigan, but pennsylvania, and in florida. They have admitted it. Al and in these momentous days of march, 50 years ago, when youre reflecting at home or wherever you are these days, what do you think about . Your mind must go back. Vernon i am thinking that that was terrific. And then i listen to what they are doing now in Voter Registration and citizenship education, and i see what is happening in staten island, in ferguson, missouri, and im saying, trouble is coming like it used to did, and we have come a long way, but there is still a journey to go. Al one of the reasons weve come a long ways because of people like Vernon Jordan. Thank you for being with us. We will be back in just a moment. Felicity huffman is here. You know her from her image any awardwinning role in desperate housewives. And her oscarwinning performance in transamerica. Her latest project takes her back to tv, and those of us who watch it are very happy about that. She plays a woman seeking justice after the murder of her son. It is called a transcendent exploration of race, and gender , class, and addiction. In my only imitation of charlie rose today, i will say im , pleased to have Felicity Huffman at this table. Welcome. Im so glad to talk to you. Felicity im so happy to be here. Gayle i intended to watch maybe half of one episode to get a sense of it. Before i knew it, i had watched all four of them that were sent to me. I was blown away. Im just such a tv junkie, but i was so excited about what i saw on the screen. Ive never seen anything like it. John ridley wrote it. It is so far from your character on desperate housewives. Were you attracted to this rule because it was so different from her . Felicity i was so excited about what i saw on the screen. I had never seen anything like felicity i had to think is this like lynette . I wanted to make sure the legacy of lynette didnt get in the way of john ridleys storytelling. You dont want to say, there is lynette as a police officer. And there she is as a nurse. Gayle i totally forgot all about lynette, and i followed desperate housewives from beginning to end. Number one, she is a mom who is seeking justice for her son. So i felt her pain. Her son is murdered. There is a part of her that is so unlikable. I was tussling backandforth with that. Talk about the character. Felicity the way i had to get into the character, as an actor you always want to find something you can endorse. You have to fall in love with her character. Gayle do you have to fall in love with the character before you can play it . Felicity for me, i do. Otherwise you have a distance between you cannot judge her character. You have to be your character. She is a mother and she is seeking justice for her son. That is a noble motivation. The way it manifests in the world is offputting. But i wanted to make sure that you at least understood her, so maybe you could have empathy for her, so you could see her as a full human being. This is why people are uncomfortable with her, because she is harsh. Like i said you can have , understanding for her, but you might not want to have dinner with her. Anytime you can put a person in a box, you can label them. You are a republican, a lesbian, a racist. You are whatever. It stops us from seeing them as a human being. It is a relief, because you are other. John really has made sure that none of these characters you can put in a box. You have to experience them as human beings, and that might bring up some discomfort. In your case, you dont know if you like her, you struggle. Gayle this is the thing, race makes people uncomfortable. Thats why a this is so great, because it tackles race from many different layers. Here is part, barb her son is murdered, and she portrays him as a perfect, all american married to the perfect allamerican wife. We later learn there are some chinks in that marriage. That become a shock to everybody as it plays out. And then the suspect is a hispanic male. Barbs first line out of her mouth is, is he illegal . And her exhusband says, stop it. That was the first time that you thought she instantly went , there. Felicity and she says those people a lot. There are a lot of things that john and the writers wrote, that i went really . First i had to find out if those people actually existed, and indeed, they do. She does say that, but if you ask barb, are you a racist . She would say no, i am a realist, and i am a pragmatist. That is what possibly the new face of racial prejudice is. Its not so overt anymore that you go, those people are below par, those people are stupid. For these people are better. It is subtle. It is people going, well, what percentage of illegals do crimes like this in modesto . I am a realist. Gayle i am a patriot, she says at one point. She also makes the point, she says this is a hate crime. Which i also thought was an interesting twist. Why isnt someone looking at this for my son, this is a hate crime. That was a different tactic that i thought was interesting. Felicity it was a different tactic, and to tell you the truth, i think she might have a point. In the same way that in the pilot, theres a twist at the end, of suddenly my son, who is murdered, who i hold up as a military hero and a patriot, suddenly they go, he might have been not so good. So everyone goes over, well, he was a bad guy and thats why he got murdered. Thats bigotry in and of itself. Because he might have been a bad guy, its ok that he got murdered . Gayle there is going to be a beginning, middle, and end on this particular storyline. Felicity there are 11 episodes. It is an anthology, a closed story. So you wont see it again. But im glad you felt like you had to watch all of them. I felt that way as well. Gayle at the end of the anthology, will it continue in another form, or is this it for you in this particular American Crime . Felicity god willing, if it does well, and abc went out on a limb for this. Network television has never done anything like this. And abc did not get its toes wet, it went full skinnydipping in the pond. If it does well, i think they will ask john to do another year, but a totally different story with different characters, and maybe some of the same actors. Gayle talk about working with him. We know john ridley from 12 years of slave, and he also wrote for the fresh prince of bel air. He has done a lot of very important writing. What was it like working with him and executing his vision . What did he say he wanted to happen on the screen . Felicity he has a very clear vision. When i kept coming to him and saying, is barb a racist . Is she a bigot . How come she says these things . He would never answer these things. She is there to get justice for her son. Her son was just killed. She said the wrong thing, ok lets keep moving forward. It was his voice, his vision. At the same time, he was very collaborative. He was willing to listen. He was willing to say, how do you want to do it . I have strong feelings about how barb would look, and he was fine with that. Gayle i thought she was very is mousy the word . Is that the word . Felicity i think she has been so eat up by life, she is very protected. Internally, she is parched. Emotionally. I felt like, everywhere she came in she just wanted to come in , under the radar. She doesnt want you to notice her hands, her hair. Just kind of under the radar, so she can come in and get her job done. And he was fine with that. Gayle let me just say, you look very glamorous tonight. Barb looks nothing like that on the show. Can i take you back to desperate housewives. How does it sit with you after a little distance from the show . Is it a fun place for you . Felicity i loved it. I loved every season of it. I felt really grateful for that job. Every week i felt like, here is a scene that challenges me. Every week i would go, wow, i really blew that scene, but maybe i can do it better next week. I loved the feeling of community. You go to the same job and you see the same people and you have a family. I love being at home and working. It was just a godsend. We were paid really well. It just doesnt get any better than that. I could have had nicer clothes but that was it. Gayle but she was always the sane one. She was very stable, but she had kind of a crazy side that would manifest itself from time to time. When i look back on that i saw you on frasier back in the day, and then transamerica back in 2005, when you were nominated for an oscar. You took that on before that was something people were even talking about. Felicity i have to give kudos to duncan, who wrote the script. I certainly got the script and went, who are these people . As i started working on the script in getting coached by these wonderful women who were transgendered, they were my heroes. He was sort of before the waves. I remember going to desperate housewives and saying, we need a transgendered character. It is wonderful, i think we should. I knew wonderful actresses. But it just was not on their radar. Gayle desperate housewives, came on in 2004 and then the movie was 2005. Nobody was talking about that. Back then, it would have seemed very on and strange. Now i think people are at least open to hearing about it and wanting to know, what is it exactly . Felicity it is wonderful. The less things that divide us the better. Gayle im curious about william h macy. Are you familiar with his work . [laughter] he is her husband. What does the h stand for .