A professor of medicine. You spent time in america. In 15 years, it you are now the defense minister and people talk about you as a possible chancellor if Angela Merkel steps down. How did you do it . Minister von der leyen good question. [laughter] merkel gave mela the first appointment as minister of family affairs. She gave a lot of trust in advance that im going to manage this task, and that is a way to enter politics. My father was a politician too, so i always have the impression as a child that politics can really change things. I think still is true, but i came with a lot of enthusiasm, and thanks to Angela Merkel, i was able to go this way through minister for labour and social affairs and now minister of defense. It is the combination you need, a boss that trusts you and give you responsibilities. Charlie but you were also the defense minister at a time where germany is reassessing always being asked to play a more forceful role around the world. Minister von der leyen this is true because out of our history for quite a long time, we are very hesitant to get more involved. Also in the critical crisis scenarios. Trinity fication, germany try to be relevant and economically strong country, and it is necessary to take over response ability on those fields that unlock the nice ones that are not the nice ones but the conflict and crises and wars. We have benefited over many, many decades from our allies in nato, who protect us. It is kind of time to pay back. Charlie tell me about your conversations here in america. You just came from meeting with asked carter, terry of defense, susan rice, National Security advisor. Can you tell me what questions are being raised . Minister von der leyen first of all, both of them were very interested in what is going on in europe and the budget crisis. Yesterday was very important summits of the european heads of state and government concerning the refugee crisis. They focused on how to tackle a problem of illegal migration treated by smugglers and traffickers, mainly in the agency that is the area between turkey and greece. There were two things that happened yesterday. First of all, nato started an activity on the agency to dismantle the patterns of the smugglers and inform the Coastal Guard of turkey and greece so we can stop them from pursuing their horrible business. Charlie with respect to chancellor merkel, the cc limits on how much germany can do . How many Refugees Germany can take . Minister von der leyen we took approximately one million last year. Define know, if you asylum as the duty to give shelter or to protect people who are politically persecuted, and who come from a war country or zone, this is fine. This is a highvalue to do that. But of course we see a lot of migrants coming out of economic reasons, and those migrants cannot opt for asylum, they must be sent back. Conceptd to work on the , on a larger concept that looks at the Asylum Seekers and genuine Asylum Seekers, instead of those who are economic migrants coming from other cut purposes. We have and had to make sure if we want in europe no borders between the member states, we need to secure the external borders. This is a fact and greece and of course we have to care for the root courses for people to flee their homeland causes for people to fill you their homeland like in syria. Homeland,lose to the turkey, lebanon, or jordan, so they can stay close to their home. You see what i am telling you, it is a complex story. And we decided not to turn down those who really need asylum because the task is so humongous. You care for them, but clear the other task. Charlie Angela Merkel eight a political price paid a political price . Minister von der leyen there is a lot of skepticism in germany if this will work. In the beginning people were on one hand overwhelmingly helpful concerning the refugees, but on the other hand werent, how many are going to come . Step by step, as the population is seeing that we are trying to stop the domestic problems with integration, trying to work on securing the external border of europe, working to reduce the flow of migrants and fighting isil with others in the coalition against terror that there is a difficult but a path that is worse to go because it is sustainable if you want to go it. Charlie it is also led to the rise of far right parties in europe. They lay on the increase, including germany. Minister von der leyen to a certain extent, yes, because there is a lot of skepticism. Thingsfear that too many might change. In their countries. In germany for example. Response ability is, as convincing, to be and stick to the concept we once developed, which in my eyes, is the right concept. To convince people over time we will solve the problem. At the moment there is still a lot of skepticism, and this gives of course a lot of fuel to rightwing parties. Charlie does it change your view . Minister von der leyen over time, if we do it well, if we manage this crisis, it will change europe for the better because it will add another experience that, even if there are huge problems, we are able to solve this problem, 500 million europeans can solve this problem. Better than any Single Member state could ever do. Charlie let me turn to the war against isis. I assume we are talking iraq and syria as well. There is much talk in iraq about an attack on muslims. Is that evident . Imminent . Minister von der leyen it is on the agenda, and the one that a prayer appeared to be the right one. They have a vivid interest to gain back the territory from isil, but to support them not only by arms and formation but also airstrikes and reconnaissance. They want to work with the peshmerga insurgents, it did with the others, and it should work for most all to mosul too. Charlie but it will be hard. Minister von der leyen it will not only be a military fight. It will be a fight we will only we haveave taken mosul, a lot of reconstruction and reconciliation so that a potential piece will be sustainable in the area. Isil has destroyed not only a lot of territory and killed people in most brutal ways, but area,lso destroyed in an the ability to live peaceful between shiite and kurdish. Charlie you have germany playing a role. Minister von der leyen germany playing almost two years in supporting the kurds, the person with arms anderga training areas. We were able to get enough strength and courage and equipment and training to the kurds that they did not only stop isil, we will able to protect 1. 5 million refugees. There were a lot in the refugee camps and kurdistan too, but they were able to defeat eiffel and fight back isil and regain territory, which is enormously important because it destroyed the image of invincibility of isil. Charlie the image is gone. Minister von der leyen it is gone. Charlie as the caliphate has diminished, the invisibility has gone. Minister von der leyen exactly. This was the thing to prove with the peshmerga, that you can fight back isil. Charlie so recruiting is much more difficult for isis. Minister von der leyen exactly because this invincibility at the beginning was attractive. Charlie who else will participate . Germany will provide arms and supplies, United States will have special forces on the ground and air. The american military. Our saudis involved . Minister von der leyen there are many countries in the coalition against terror. Charlie but they are all involved in retaking mosul. Minister von der leyen most, but the cult coalition against there are more than 60 countries being involved of all different tasks that are necessary. For example, the emirates are involved with germany in the task of reconstruction of cities like ramadi or two great that had to be taken back from isil, just to name a task. Charlie when you take these, you find incredible carnage and brutality has existed in those places. Isis had under control. Minister von der leyen it is sad what is left over. Wounded souls and destroyed neighborhoods but also a lot of mines, so we have not only to reestablish us relation a population of people to learn to live together, but also cleaning the cities, reconstruct and all of that. Charlie so the part against mosul, are they going to be shia muslims under muslims . Minister von der leyen i think they will be shia muslims with the Central Government of iraq. Charlie what about iranians . Minister von der leyen well, in iraq, without any doubt, iran is too. G a role roo charlie what role of a playing . Minister von der leyen they support the shia, the sunni are supported by us. We try not to start to divide this country with sunni or shia but to stick together. What we are telling the kurds is that we expect them to stick to the Central Government as well as we tell the Central Government that we expect them to teach sunni and shia together. That is the precondition to be supported by the coalition against terror. Withie what is the plan syria . You have these hostilities. Is that working as far as you know . Minister von der leyen it is working. Since 10 to 11 to 12 days by now, a short the bank, it gives us hope. Knock on wood as it stays it is. Syria is different from iraq because you can see what happened. Those who are supposed to fight in thehave no unities approach on how to fight eiffel. Isil. Russia together with a side assad, the regime, not only to fight isil but the coalition we support charlie yes and the United States minister von der leyen the coalition of terror. We see and solve that the turks were not only fighting eiffel isil but also having conflicts with the syrian kurds. From my word you hear the lack of unity of those who were isil gave strength to eiffel isil. Now that we have the talks at a point about to have a ceasefire between those different groups. Andexpect java under truck anoutra and isil to fight together. There is a huge access to this population, suffering to bring humanitarian aid. Charlie has that begun . Minister von der leyen it has begun. Charlie is it successful in getting in . Minister von der leyen it is. There was a glimpse of hope that we will turn to a better time with assembling forces to fight isil and finding a solution on how we could see the future of sharia. That is a transformation time passed assad. Charlie is nato playing a role . Minister von der leyen not at the moment. Charlie not at the moment . Minister von der leyen it is not involved. Charlie would you like to see a involved . Minister von der leyen many members are already nato members. I think it is never too good to speculate on these things before is anythingre there concrete. I dont want to speculate charlie has russia played a positive role in syria . Minister von der leyen in the beginning they played a very difficult role. Charlie they have propped up the assad regime. Minister von der leyen yes they pretended, and the majority of the air fights went against civilians. This was atrocious to see that. At one time they were bombing time theyd another were agreeing to sit down at the negotiation table. It has stopped now. Charlie it is stopped now . They are no longer bombing, the forces the coalitions support . The moderate rebel forces . Minister von der leyen it is basically the ceasefire does work here and there. There are difficulties, but if you look at the processes for such a complex situation, over the next few days it is going in the right direction. We should triple that i all means. Charlie chancellor merkel and Vladimir Putin have a relationship. It is difficult, but she has been very tough, and what he considers in that relationship with germany, he has a certain kinship with germany, because he served there in the kgb. He speaks german and they talk in german. Minister von der leyen and she speaks russian. Charlie what does she understand about him . Minister von der leyen well, she does not underestimate him. Charlie does not. Minister von der leyen not at all. She knows exactly that he does very well to calculate his options. That you have to take very serious the way he sees the world, which is different from the way we see the world. Charlie how does you see the world . How does he see the world . Minister von der leyen he said catastrophe of the last century was the breaking up of the soviet union. This is not our perception. Charlie but he also sees the world in terms of what is on his borders. He worries about it, because that part of russian history has been invasion from outside. He has a keen sense of being able to protect their borders, which is the reason they worried about the encroachment of nato. Minister von der leyen what we built up his the huge architecture that has restrict respect for the sovereignty of each country, and countries that are at the borders of russia or europe have the right to decide with whom they want to trade, with whom they want to associate. So the sovereignty of a country to decide how to live is something which is very precious within the international law. It is a right that has to be protected that has to be clear for us in europe or nato. It has to be clear for russia too. If you look at ukraine, you cant have the right to decide it wants to position itself. Charlie is russia allowing them to do that . With the people on the border in Eastern Ukraine . Minister von der leyen but we have seen almost two years ago now, russia did not allow that to ukraine. We saw a hybrid or fair in ukraine and Eastern Ukraine triggered by the annexation of crimea, which is unbearable. That was a very, very and still is a conflict, a very difficult situation. Russia did this, this hybrid warfare, which is not open but disguised with a lot of propaganda, with a lot of cyber activity, a lot of activity in social media, but of course heavy arms and weapons that would have triggered into charlie that plane was shot down. There was discourse of that. Minister von der leyen exactly. I think one smart and wise decision was not to answer in the same way as russia as acting in the ukraine, otherwise we would have had an extremely dangerous situation over there. To answer to russia in a way that we said, listen, if you do not abide to the rules, we answer by hurting you in a way where you are the most vulnerable. Your economic sanctions. Of course, industry is valuable too. This put a lot of pressure on russia, ushering to economy at the moment it has a shrinking economy at the moment. Charlie im behind that, those sanctions, and because of ukraine, president putin moved into syria, and some say has changed the dynamics and put russia at the center of the conversation about the future of syria. And russias relevance is more important than it has ever been in action by the west, allowed him to do that. Minister von der leyen at the beginning, it ukraine before russia moved to syria, it was the meat agreement. Alsot into a process supported by the sanctions and russia, theyor of wanted to find a solution. Ukraine agreed to the process, which is still a work in process but is it to the medic process now. There are steps but it is the diplomatic process now. You are right that russia turned into syria. Russia put itself back into the game. That has to be admitted. Aware of the fact that we, the coalition against terror, all of us, will not find solution for syria without russia. So it is better to sit down at the table now and to work on the Peace Process in syria. Charlie what do you think they want . Russia . Minister von der leyen what they want . They want to keep their basis in syria, which is extremely important to them. Regiment that the assad will not fail, which they were , oressful in supporting reestablishing the assad regime, because it would have failed. Charlie you would have failed if they had not come in. Minister von der leyen yes, it was a fact. But russia is talking about the possibility that over time, longterm, there is a future without assad. This is important for both sides. It is wise not to aim at destroying the structures in syria, because we have seen too many city states that when you destroy the complete governmental structures, it is wise to keep an eye on her mental structures. Governmental structures. A longterm future for syria cannot be with assad. Charlie that is part of the argument he has made, some government structure. The absence of government and we see in libya, and gained by isis in libya. Tommy me what germany wants to do, not only in libya, but in africa in terms of using its own give abilities . Libya, central africa. Minister von der leyen one sentence, to make one thing clear, germany is never acting on its own. It is always acting with partners and alliances, be it nato work with the european union. This is something which is absolutely clear out of our history, but within these alliances, we are engaged. We have the number of soldiers south africa. Li, we are worried about an increasing presence of isil in libya. Workingoment we are with others on establishing a formation element in tunisia, which is the neighbor of libya, so that potentially we can give formation training to libyan soldiers. The difficult part at the moment is without an existing government in libya, we still have to wait for a process while these two competing parts of the government form a government of unity to invite the International Community to help. Which should be the way we go. Charlie has United States, or better yet, has germany put aside, gotten past the idea that came out of the snowden revelations, that your chancellor had been spied on . Minister von der leyen whether we have put aside charlie your abhorrence. In other words, has a relationship gotten past that, or do you still have great anger, reservations . Do you look at the president and say minister von der leyen of course there was anger. But we know how important our american friends are for us, and we know there are many, many fields where we work together. Charlie but you dont forget. Minister von der leyen both sides, these things are not ok, but we are good friends, you can speak about that, you can clarify that. But the foundation, the basis is still good between friends. We are past that. Charlie so you are past that. And be assured it is not happening now. Minister von der leyen for us, it is important to have american friends at our side. We will never forget what you did right after world war ii when you not only came with the marshall plan, which germany you stressed out your hand to take us back into the country. This is something germany will never ever forget. We stand together for the same values of freedom, of democracy, of the right to have, you know, free speech, free press. All these values are the Common Ground we are stand