This was a fascinating conversation. What stood out for you . Theres really nothing like it that i can think. It was supposed to be more on leadership of the various fed chairmen from years past and not about interest rates, but there was an awful lot there about current Monetary Policy. I felt one of the interesting questions was asked, why dont you do more . Why dont you overshoot inflation . Why dont you help boost wages in the economy, for instance, which is a hot topic right now in the election. And it was interesting to me no, thelen said, economy is actually progressing quite well right now, and she even said there is some evidence that inflation is moving up. Remember, in recent comments, she said she wasnt so certain that inflation was up. To me, the core pce is 1. 7 , which is close. That was quite interesting, i thought. Mark did you get a sense that that question was aimed at calling into question the feds mandate . Dual mandate . Not every central bank has a dual mandate of employment and keeping inflation under control. Chris i expected more this from your from volcker. Bernanke did not give them the unemployment rate, soft target, hard target, till the end of 2012. This is kind of knew. I thought it interesting that just at thew in end, the u. S. Dollar will be ok if the u. S. Keeps inflation under control. We know he is probably not so much in favor of the dual mandate, at least the heavy emphasis on fighting unemployment, where he used to just fight inflation. Mark one of the things i found most fascinating, the conversation which aaron bernanke, when they talked about chairman bernanke, when they talked about the taper tantrum. That delved into a conversation about transparency. Part of the criticism of the Federal Reserve is that sometimes they are too transparent, that they telegraph what they are going to do in the market will go through convulsions until the next fomc meeting. Is there a possibility that the Federal Reserve, in trying to be what Congress Wants it to be, more open, more accessible, that the fed is too transparent . Chris the downside of transparency is that the market overreacts to these things. Thats why they threw it first well, bernanke and said, you were the one who talked about transparency. You told people about the taker. What about the taper. What about the taper tantrum . You said you were going to taper in the next few meetings. It was interesting to me that bernanke, number one, said, well, the bond market came back down, so the overall impact of that taper tantrum was not that bad. But the other thing he missed was that he did not taper in september. He promised to do something, and then he went against his own communication. That was a market reaction. Mark lets get some reaction from someone who is at the event. Id use the phrase fascinating to describe what we just witnessed. What was your takeaway . I felt the most interesting thing was, the questions spanned several decades of Monetary Policy decisions, and some of those decisions that a lot of people would call mistakes. You had Alan Greenspan asked about the international situation. And they talked about the rate cuts that he did in 1998 a little bit. And basically, he defended his actions, saying eventually the turmoil in the rest of the world would have come back to hurt the rest the u. S. Economy. That is something that has a lot of significance for the u. S. Today. In a similar vein, ben bernanke said questions about the taper tantrum, which your guest was just speaking up it was a similar thing. He downplayed the impact on the economy from that. Again, that is a very relevant thing for policymakers today who are trying to avoid a repeat of just that situation. So, it was interesting how you theseese defensive defenses of past policy and how they relate to the current situation. Mark thanks. We have about one minute left. I have to ask you, one of the more fascinating parts of this for me was when they talked about the power that these human beings have, the power the janet yellen and ben bernanke and paul volcker and Alan Greenspan had. Is that a power that, for some people, is just too much . Mr. Bernanke made a point of saying, you know, we Work Together on this. We have to speak with our colleagues. We try to arrive at a consensus. There are of course dissenters, but they tried to arrive at a consensus they try to arrive at a consensus. Is that what members of congress have been talking about . Do they believe the Federal Reserve and, particularly, the chair of the rozier has too much the Federal Reserve has too much unchecked power . With bernanke did say great power goes great responsibility. Just thinking back what he did with the crisis, he was sleeping overnight in his office and stuff. It was interesting that both bernanke and yelling are more consensus yellen are more consensusoriented. Greenspan, perhaps he did not always consult the members as much as they should. The bernanke and yellen, lead up to the fomc meetings, they work the phones and get all the views of all the members. Rupkey, always good to see you. Thanks so much. And matt osler boesler, joining us on the phone. A meeting of the four current and past Federal Reserve chairs, janet yellen, Alan Greenspan, and paul volcker. Im mark crumpton. This is oomberg television. We now join charlie rose in progress. The volatility in this electorate andhe the feelings about the country, where the country is headed it is a sense of, you get, clearly, a sense of anger and a sense of optimism, the spending depending on who you are speaking with. You go to the sanders crowds. There is a vibrant, young sense of optimism that bernie can change this. You go to the truck rallies and the cruz rallies and you get a sense of the trump rallies and the cruz rallies and you get a sense of frustration, someone is taking our country from us. Donald trump is Strong Enough to get the country back for us. It has been a tenmonth lesson in changing culture in this country. Charlie everybody thought that donald trump would change president ial. I did not see that last night. And the whole idea was that now he needed to show that he was more president ial. And the circumstances of wisconsin are less likely to produce that because it goes back to his core. This is a contest. Its about winning. And i will do all these other things after i win. You can look at the last three weeks and focus on where he has not been more president ial and created more problems for himself on twitter and through some interviews, but you also look at his speech to ai pac, which got overshadowed, because brussels happened the next morning. En gave a pretty wellwrittt speech, first time in his life reading from a teleprompter. You can see the hires he has the, the old hands, establishment of a foreignpolicy team, which some people found underwhelming, but at least he took that step. Because they refers to the fact that his wife and daughter say he constantly refers to the fact that his wife and daughter say to him, you need to be more president ial. Its a oneperson operation, with all due respect this is the way he has operated. Donald trump is, in one way, the most surprising person any of us have ever covered, and, in other ways, he is the most predictable. You see the things he says and does, and they are a product of his way of operating in the world. And that has not been, for most of his life, president ial. Thats just not his thing. Or mainly toed it take the advice of his family and behave in a more president ial fashion he has tried intermittently to take the advice of his family and behave in a more president ial fashion. His incapacity to control himself, in terms of wanting to be the center of attention at all times, permit is usually all times, promiscuously doing interview after interview, television show, tweeting all the time, retreating other peoples tweets retreating retweeting other peoples tweets, regardless of who they are from. It comes in the middle of a week in which the combination of sending out that tweet, which overshadows all of that other stuff, it gets amplified by his opponents. He has a Campaign Manager who gets arrested for battery, accusation that involves a young female reporter. In a moment where he is totally unprepared in the conversation with Chris Matthews for a basic question about what he claims to be his possession on the question of life and abortion, he totally screws it up in a way that causes potentially irreparable harm within a hugely important part of the electorate Going Forward and also, obviously, in wisconsin. I dont disagree. He understands that he must be more president ial, that that is an imperative. But his core impetuous and his lack of preparation keep bursting through but his core coetuous this and his his re impetuousness and his lack of preparation keep bursting through. The old its a bit like story from vietnam, the scorpion and the turtle. I stung you because its my nature. Jeanne john raises a really good point about the amount of damage that he did to himself. If you look at the exit polls, trump has generally gotten about 36 , 35 of the women. When you look at exit polls in the prior primaries. You look in wisconsin, he got about that number. By more cruz beat him than 10 points with women. The women who had been with trump, like many of his supporters, stayed put. There are very loyal to him. They are willing to tolerate a lot of mistakes. However, those are not with him right now. They moved. If that keeps up, thats going to create more opportunities for keeph and cruz to chipping away at the margin of victory that he needs, that trump would need to try to seal the deal. Emily late charlie late deciders are not voting for trump, correct . Given the fact that he is uniquely a solo act in american politics, a solo act. He is flying alone, listening to only what he hears in his head. Discipline. Ssage given the fact that running for president is largely about message discipline doesnt this spell his doom . So far, anybody who has predicted his doom has proven wrong, up until, literally, this week. This is the first time he has paid a price electorally for some of the errors he has made. He has made errors. With impunity throughout the race so far. Charlie is it reaching a Critical Mass . John it may bp are we all know he is coming to new york it may be. We all know he is coming to new york, his home state. He is expected to win a huge number of delegates here. He caused himself some damage in the sense that we already discussed. He has made a contested Convention Way more likely because the way he lost in wisconsin, and he has done longterm damage for any potential you might have to become the president of the United States, because he has alienated, in a profound way, women and hispanic voters. There is no world in which you can be the president of the United States if you have a disapproval rate of 70 from the hispanic vote and the female vote in america. Trump is the nominee before the convention. Trump wins the ballot at the convention. Cruz wins the nomination at the convention, or someone else does. Paul ryan, john kasich, whoever. Charlie an increasing number of people believe it will be paul ryan. Do you believe that . I believe thats the most likely nontrump cruz outcome. I said this morning and got some heat for it that trump is still the most likely nominee by a lot. Of the four outcomes, two of them involve trump becoming the nominee. Thats becoming, after last night, until we see that he can , its becoming less likely that he will be the nominee, but he is still the most likely. Do any of you three experts think that donald trump gets to a second ballot in cleveland . And wins . Does he get to a second ballot . If he cant get there in one, does he get to a second ballot . Charlie what do you think . I think no. Jeanne there are some states that are state delegates that are bound twice, but they would not amount to enough to make a significant difference on that second ballot. Charlie i want to go to the democratic race in a moment. Lets suppose you are ted cruz. What do you do . Youve got more organization. Youve got more discipline. You shown you are willing to fight back at trump, on the heidi business especially. Whats his strategy . Asumulate as much as many delegates as possible informally. I believe that they believe scores of delegates will be forced to vote for trump on the first ballot who would not vote for him on a subsequent ballot. Charlie how has it changed . Every state is different. They are bound because they are elected i believe the press often overexcesses on electability and is sure voters overobsesses on electability. I believe that when we get to the convention, if trump has not won it back do you far want to go . Mark two reagan. To reagan. John f. Kennedy said himself that if rockefeller had been the nominee, he would have beaten richard nixon. By doing well in headtohead polls, acting like someone who could win regardless of what you think about the Republican Partys propensity to elect the most electable, the people in the room will be focused in a laserlike way on the question of electability. The broader electorate, maybe, maybe not. In that room in cleveland, thats the only thing they are going to be focused on. Charlie Bernie Sanders. Mike its amazing how much of the energy and movement behind Bernie Sanders that the Clinton Campaign missed for so long. From utica to rochester to syracuse, doing extremely well. How much of it is antiHillary Clinton and how much of it is probernie . How much of it is a genuine understanding on his part and the voters are of what his camp voters part of what his campaign is about . Mike i think it is probernie, because the audience he has attracted, the people who support for him support him, vote for him, donate money in the millions, recognize in him someone who has been espousing the same message consistently for 30, 35 years. And he is sort of unique on a public platform today, given the way politicians change their minds and their views on a weekly basis. Charlie a lot of people have been wrong about Bernie Sanders, havent they . To some extent, he was underestimated, certainly from the beginning. But when reporters went out and saw his rallies and talked to his voters and learned the passion that they had, i agree with mike that it is more properly and less antihillary, but not more probernie and less antihillary. The idea that we will nominate someone who has been part of the money nature of politics monied nature of politics, moneyed nature of politics rubs people the wrong way. Ted cruz says, i agree with Bernie Sanders. The 1 has gotten too rich under barack obama. When ted cruz starts talking like Bernie Sanders, you know the guy struck a chord. Jeanne one of the things that has really struck me about this campaign is that the motivating the animating factor, for both Bernie Sanders supporters and the donald trump supporters, are very similar. Both of them are attracting workingclass people who feel frustrated with the system and they are not doing as well economically. So, the motivations on both the far left and the far right are very, very similar. Their this goes to what michael said earlier. Their solutions are very different. Bernies supporters are turning to want government to help them solve these continuing problems and frustrations that they have trumps supporters want him to blow the system up, the system that they think has been keeping them down. So, its a solution to very similar frustrations and problems that we see animating so much of the edges of the campaigns. Charlie there are public and party the donaldcan party, trump is nominated, they have big problems. Either they have them is their nominee as their nominee with those problems or they nominate someone else and he convinces his supporters that they have im going to and stay as a factor in this one way or another. Its a dilemma you dont want to have in a political party. Is a sophies choice it is a sophies choice. Donald trump has started laying down the predicate for the complaint that he has had the nomination rightfully stripped from him. He is already making that argument. The people who follow him will believe that argument. Those people will not vote for the republican nominee if it is not donald trump, if they believe the establishment has stripped away what was rightfully his. Basically, if you put them under sodium prenticehall sodium say, wel, they would know we are going to lose the general election, we understand that. Youre trying to keep our party from we are trying to keep our party from being split in two. We need to try to hold the senate, hold the house, not have this be a cataclysm. Charlie thats the reason they come to a different view of the man they hated so much. Loose tohe will Hillary Clinton, but it will not be a cataclysm he will lose to Hillary Clinton, but it will not be a cataclysm on every ballot in the country. Charlie the Democratic Party, the dlc, the idea of a guy who, because he had been in arkansas politics, understood that you had to be very centrist to win but dont think its dead, it certainly is on life support. The reason is not the similar from whats gone on in the Republican Party as well. I think you have millions of people sitting out there, and we have been speaking around us and to this this evening, but politicians in power today in the house and senate, especially in the senate, seem to have no idea and they cannot articulate the pain, the hurt, the damage that was caused in 2008, 2009 to so many people, who lost jobs, homes, 401ks, any sense of hope for an immediate future for their children. And i think Bernie Sanders also speaks to the iraq war and the pain that has caused america. Charlie does that resonate . It does, for so many families, left and right. Trump says the same thing. Trump says wall street has rich people off, the