A car accident in 1972. His son beau biden died last year from brain cancer. In january, president obama tasked him with the new National Cancer moonshot initiative. He has spoken out about Sexual Assault on college campuses. He spoke at the center for new american security. He criticized donald trump and his approach to Foreign Policy. Mr. Biden his intolerance, his proposal to ban muslims from entering the United States. Profiling muslim americans. Slandering an entire religious community. It calls into question americas status as the greatest democracy in the history of the world. Charlie i sat down with joe biden for a conversation. We have seen in orlando another terrorist attack. The largest mass shooting in american history. It brings to the fore once again gun control. Are you any more optimistic about the voting today and tomorrow and this week, that at long last some changes may take place . Mr. Biden slightly. The last time we did anything with assault weapons it was the biden legislation. It was contained in a much larger bill. Everyone was worried about crime. 37 of the people in the pew poll in 1994 said they want the government to work on violence. Today its 3 . It doesnt have the same valence. On matters relating to people on the terrorist watch list being able to purchase a weapon as well as possibly tighter background checks could pass the senate. Charlie and could it pass the house of representatives . Dont know. Youve got to continue to try. It will eventually pass. People give up on this because the public agrees with us. Overwhelmingly. For them it is the single most important vote. Might my congressman everything,e on but if you dont agree with me on background checks and all vote against you. Charlie president obama said newtown was the worst day of his presidency. Mr. Biden i have become friends with a number of those families. You learn when something bad happens that it can be comfort to other people. Because i have lost children there was an affinity. I have gotten to know these families. That was the most tragic thing thats ever happened. The way in which these children were killed. I met with the state police the a number of whom at the time because ofseling what they saw. Killing. Omeness of the when i was chairman of the Judiciary Committee held hearings on this issue back in the 1990s. I had the chief trauma surgeons from 30 largest trauma hospitals in america, new york and philadelphia and chicago. They came and testified. The statistics of the time were that not many more people were being shot but many more people were dying. Who wasoman, the doctor head of the trauma departments said i used to be able to pull this slug out of someones lung and save their life. I could do it and theyd live through it. Then she held up a nine millimeter bullet. This blows the lung out of the body. And happens is the velocity the amount of force inject. If someone didnt have the equivalent of an ar15 a lot more people would be alive. Many people have been shot. The reason why assault weapons and highcaliber weapons are so bad, i mean low caliber weapons are so bad. Its because they deliver fatal someone. N they strike if we could just get that across. You . Ie why havent some of the wisest and most experienced people in the country have not been able to get across. Mr. Biden the opposition is strong. When i put together a proposal for the president after newtown. We came very close to getting extended background checks. I had one senator call me and he said, even though my state, 70 of the people agree with me, there are 200 protesters outside my office. It is the intensity with which the people who oppose and of the funding that comes from the nra and other gun groups are so wellorganized. Charlie do you think if someone is intent on doing violence they will find a gun . Mr. Biden lets assume thats true. Whether they find the equivalent of an ar15 or some other gun depends on how much damage they can do. Is a quantum difference. You give me a nine millimeter glock and you have a 38 caliber revolver i will kill more people than you. You will shoot just as many but i will kill more. The lethality of the weapon matters. If they dont have a gun though get a baseball bat or a knife. Then they will not get to as many people. If you have multiple rounds and magazines that holds 19 shot and you could just go boom boom boom, as opposed to the old sick the old sixshooter they had in westerns. You have to take it out and you have to work it. So it matters, to the amount of carnage they can occur as a consequence of what type of weapon is being used. When we eliminated assault weapons in the biden bill, it did go down. The number of people being killed by these weapons went down. Its not the total answer. We could have thousands of people who were convicted felons and spousal abusers who were in fact not able to go into a store and purchase a weapon. The fbi always needs more resources. In terms of personnel. I mean, we could use a larger fbi. Thats a budgeting issue. Theylative terms, although are funded. I think it is approaching it in a way not violating the constitution and doing a good job. For example, if youve ever been on a nofly list they cant buy a gun. Politicalhis is a year and these are political issues. If we turn inward and undermine our most important relationships and seek soundbite answers in a world governed by complexity, we will squander all of our hardearned progress. Most people who heard that thought you were talking about donald trump. Mr. Biden donald trump falls into that category but so do a lot of other people. Majority of the people, its a very small minority. But it is a voice that is being heard around the world. That sentiment is being heard around the world. When you see people, this is simple reason if we pull back and we squander the alliances that we have. For example, it matters whether or not extremists traveling from france or belgium and germany going to the site with isis and going in to fight with isis and being trained and coming back. Whether they get on the plane in brussels and flight of the United States. Internally they have that access. Only recently have we gotten to the point where now they are sharing the passenger list. We want to know whos on the plane. We have extensive intelligence to warn us that soandso is getting on a plane that is on the list. If we dont cooperate if we denigrate that if we talk about them being useful or competence. There are 1. 5 billion muslims in the world. If we make the religion the enemy where the hell do you think are going to get the cooperation . Charlie is that what donald trump is doing in your estimate . Mr. Biden yes. Charlie if you were running against donald trump, you like thetical battle, you like ideas. Of what would be your case . Againstld be your case him . Mr. Biden obviously i am not running. I will be out campaigning for hillary. The case i will make on her behalf and why she should be president is that if you in fact conclude that we dont need alliances. Let me back up. It is a different world charlie. We have to continue to be worried about major regional actors. Russia, china, iran. What people are most worried about are the stateless actors. Those elements from failed states that are generating extremist ideologies and organizations. That is not met with a standing any, that is met with intensive interlocking of intelligence organizations. The willingness to train those governments in those countries. With the capacity to deal internally with these extremist elements, that all requires cooperation. That requires you to have a relationship. What good does it do if falluja is freed and ramadi is cleared but the devastation left behind in those sunni towns, another Extremist Group will pop up. So what are we doing . We cant pay for all about ourselves. Were going to convince the japanese and others to help rebuild these towns. We can have them so stability. Help train the forces in iraq and other places to be able to deal with this kind of extremism. Tom friedman was a good friend wrote a long time ago that if you dont visit the bad neighborhood it will eventually visit you. Charlie john brennan testified before congress. Its not a rosy picture. You have made progress. Amount ofeduced the land. They are strong and the gains have a long long way to go. Mr. Biden john said two things. Are we making progress against the caliphate . That isised areas and syria. Iraq he said yes we are but still have a big problem. They can metastasize around the world. The difference between isis and al qaeda, al qaeda never was in a position where they occupy territory. Hs of literally threatening the stability of countries. I want you all the time. I watch you all the time. Solicitous. Ng to be about two years ago you were talking about how these guys captured mosul. If they are able to consolidate land and power why did the saudis start page tension . They realized their kingdom was in trouble. They could take down the government. Occupied land and territory. The notion that across a state able to topple entire states was something everybody was concerned about. That is not that within the power of isil to do now. But they can have a cell with 17 people or four people with 3 million, planning a program with a find two suicide bombers were going to figure out how to smuggle into the United States or into europe to blow themselves up and cause chaos and havoc. The only answer to that is intensified intelligence and continued vigilance on homeland security. And cooperation with allies. I get along well with everyone in congress. A lot of my friends up there are talking about how we are less safe. But no boots on the ground. If you have no boots on the ground you not to put another hundred 50,000 people in their. We change the situation on the ground but be there for a decade. Does it make sense . It gets down to equipment and training and alliances. Significant increases in intelligence. And a laser focus on homeland security. Charlie was it a mistake not to leave troops there . And if you did, would we not have seen the rise of isis . Mr. Biden two things, thats a favorite example of my friend john. I was hailing the policy at the time. We worked closely with almaliki at the time. We argued strenuously to be able to keep 5000 to 7000 special forces there who would have been able to work with and continue to train and bolster the iraqi troops. Iraqi troops,000 trained. Hat we not a single solitary person in the government even those who said they wanted to stay was willing to go to the core of the congress and get an amendment passed saying that those troops would be protected under a status of forces agreement. Be pluckedldnt just up and tried in a court. Every Single Person said unless we have that protection we can put those troops there. Its the responsible. It wasnt for lack of trying. We tried like hell. The overwhelming view by the time that vote came around was that america was an occupying force. We could not get any consensus. We wanted to stay. It was the dislocation caused by sectarian divisions that allowed this all to come back. Charlie missing the curves reminds me, you used to argue for partition. Mr. Biden leslie gelb and i argued for a federal system. Called to have a capital control over the policy. And foreign but each of the regions, a sunni region, a kurdish region and the shia region, each of them should have the same kind of autonomy that california has. California has the state police patrol. Its not federal police. Delaware has state police. My argument was the kurds are never going to allow a Shia National police force to kurdistan. Allownnis arent going to it just goes down the line. To have a National Army made sense. But to allow more autonomy in the regions. It still makes sense. Charlie the Prime Minister wants to march towards mosul. Can you retake it within the six months that this in administration has . Mr. Biden it depends on a number of things. Thegs that relate to ministry. I talk to the Prime Minister all the time. I am his phone pal. He is solid. He believes in a more federated system. He tried to set up National Guards in anbar and elsewhere. He understands the need for autonomy. He is reaching out. Hes beent problem getting, he wants us to equip the sunni tribes to help. Coming from the shia militia that i want any part of it. It would take two things to retake mosul. We have to get our allies involved. We cant leave chaos behind. And nongovernance and a great exodus. Like we did in tikrit. Folks came back. Come back,ble to by and large. There has to be a Modus Vivendi between the kurds and baghdad. That is being worked on. Here is what has to happen. You can have the pmf which is the shia militia. They can be part of it as long as they dont go into the cities. Charlie and they are doing most of the fighting right now arent they . Well, they are doing a lot of the fighting. The real force is the Iraqi Special forces. They are the ones who are taking the brunt of it. Supported by americans. And now the anbar tribesmen. So we could get mosul. But you need to have and our generals are working hard right now. Across the river and get the area south of mosul and secure it to cut off the ability for reinforcements to flow back and forth. It would be a significant victory for iraq. The rest of the world has to be ready to back fill. You have to be able to turn the water on. You have to be able to turn the lights on. Thelie but is the rest of world prepared to come in . Biden they need to step up. The uae and the saudis have to be involved. My argument to them is, ok, you go ahead and free these anbar towns they have to have bridges and schools. If you dont its not going to work. Deputy crown prince was here. The conventional wisdom is that the saudis were very upset about the iranian deal. They view the iranians as their enemy. It raised questions about how much they trusted us. So therefore they are reluctant warriors. Mr. Biden lets be blunt. Theyve never been what youd call nonreluctant warriors. I find it interesting that the whole world was ready to hold t say,nd say, got go get them, america. Fightingdo whatever needs to be done. The fighting or the negotiating. Mbs is having a bit of an epiphany. About why it is not in saudi arabias interest to look at the agreement with iran as a zerosum game. You begin to see changes of policy in yemen. A recognition that there is space. They were surprised that the saudis signed a deal and actually moved forward and put cement in that iraqi reactor. Doing things they were never going to do. It is a bit of a generational shift to going on in saudi arabia. Show me. It makes sense not to push the envelope too far. But the United States, are you willing to continue to keep the second piece of this agreement which is if you sponsor terrorism were going to go after you. Charlie they are asking, are you prepared to come down hard on iranian behavior . Mr. Biden the answer is we are. The evidence is all the work we are doing to intercept arms shipments. We put the naval blockade when the iranians are going to send equipment into yemen. We said come on. You know . We risked starting a war keeping the United Nations commitment that nobody could send in arms. Where we find that we respond. This is a process. The process is improving. It is a little bit like well, you hear from various quarters. I meet frequently with the turkish leadership. They asked why arent you going in and establishing a nofly zone . I said you are a nato force. Youre right there on the border. You have all this fancy aircraft. Why dont you use them . Silence. Ownuse you downt want to it . We dontis that whty . It . Use we dont want to own biden two reasons. The expenditure of resources, the president has said in the situation room to our generals, give me every single option including the use of force. Whatever you think would work, tell me. And they say nofly zone is a big mistake. Or talking about is we are going piecebypiece eliminate isil which is the greatest threat to peace. Getting saddam out of power. Charlie assad. Mr. Biden right. That was a freudian slip. Charlie would we have been better off if some of these dictators had stayed in power . Saddam . Qaddafi . Mubarak . Strongly i argued against going to libya. I asked, what happens when hes gone . Doesnt the country disintegrate . Does it become a place where becomes a petri dish for the growth of extremism . Tell me what were going to do. And it has. I dont think we should use force unless it meets certain basic criteria. Is it in the National Security interest of the United States . Are u. S. Interests directly threatened . Or our allies . Itber two, can we use efficaciously . Will it work . And three, can it be sustained . My dad used to say if everything is equally important, then nothing is important. Whether or not north korea decides to use Nuclear Weapons. Whether or not china decides to become rogue. Whether or not russia continues to challenge borders in europe. These are existential concerns. Is it a concern that there is a bad guy in africa or in the middle east . Yes. It is a concern. What is within our wheelhouse to do and can we solve every problem around the world . I think we dont often ask enough and we didnt ask enough in the beginning about, i know it the first step is that what is the third and the fourth step . Charlie if you take out assad, you dont know what will follow. Mr. Biden to take him out now you are taking on russia and iran. Russia has imposed a radar system that covers a significant portion of the country. You are going to go in and take out the russian facilities . Take on russian aircraft . We could do it. But is it worth it . Charlie is that a victory for Vladimir Putin . Mr. Biden when we went to see use of force what happened . Every republican was against it. Vladimir putin is in real trouble in syria. He is trying to figure out how the hell to get out of syria. He has the great problem in ukraine and europe now his economy is in almost free fall. This is a guy who is not winning anything. Charlie but he is a player in the world. Mr. Biden well look, he is a player in the sense that he is engaged practically as a practical matter supporting a dictator whos killing tens of thousands of his people. So, if you call that a player. But is he influential in the world . No. Charlie with respect to russia, you dont want your european allies to think that you are abandoning them in any kind of relationship with russia. But you also have to conversation because of the change in techno