He is expected to meet with victims families as well as Law Enforcement officials. Joining me now is manny fernandez. Thank you for coming in. I know how busy you are. Manny thank you for having me on. Charlie give me a sense of dallas today and the president , bush 43 as well coming together with Vice President biden. Charles dallas is at a very interesting point right now. Because on one point, Walking Around is very relaxed. A typical city. There was a bunch of school kids coming into my hotel as i was leaving, getting ready for some kind of event. On the other hand, there is a hint of tension and a lot of grief. I talked to one Police Officer and it said it took them 30 minutes to go from his car into a store to buy a coke and walk out because so many people stopped him to shake his hand, to hug cam, to come up to them. Talk to i came them, people were coming up to shake his hand out of the blue, ask him how he was doing. That really captures for me what the city is going through right now. Charlie part of it for me is the chief of police seems to have done and communicates both with a sense of calmness, integrity, and an understanding. Manny his role and his Performance Today at this press conference really sets the tone. You are right. He has been extraordinarily personal, extraordinarily frank and honest, he has not shied away from talking about race, talking about how hard it is to be a police chief. This morning he used a little bit of humor talking about how he said my brain is fried. You know, you just do not hear a police chief on a National Stage talk about that and uses kinds of phrases. Yes, he has projected calm and we talked to a lot africanamerican residents who are proud of him. They are definitely watching for what he is saying. Charlie do you feel there is a sense that Dallas Police in itself can recover from this . Manny without a doubt. You hear that not only in the public statements and the press releases, and the official side of things but you see it in the unofficial side, in talking to people, Walking Around. Everyone is talking about this sort ofdallas stronger idea. And, by the way, can i just say that dallas has been sort of battered in the last couple of years. Not only did you have the ebola crisis, you had last year a gunman, Armored Vehicle attacked the Police Headquarters downtown. Some of those officers that were fired on last year were fired on this year. I think that there is that sense a paleo government. Happening . Is charlie coming after the idea for a long time after the kennedy assassination that it was a city of hate. They had to overcome that. Manny and that phrase, that motto stung the city. And, in it has. It continues to sting the city. One of the things that happened was on the anniversary of the jfk ss a nation, the 50th anniversary, dallas used that as a way to look at itself in a were we a city of hate . What are we now . That process was there for some of those events. That helped dallas deal with itself and its future. Charlie and the mayor . How is he doing . Manny the same way. I think he has done great. You know, a lot of people have praised what he is doing. You know these are officials , that are going through something extraordinary. They are dealing with the investigation, they are dealing with the grief, they are dealing with a little bit of the chaos. And, they are able to not forget that they are human in and talk in human ways. And i think in a way that helps calm people, helps calm the city. Charlie everybody is asking all kinds of questions about the unraveling of this relationship between a segment of the population and police. You hear the eloquent voices within police, like the chief suggesting we are talking about awful acts by the police, this is a small minority and we feel we have a lot of men and women risking their lives and this is a terrible reflection on them to see these kinds of things. And we hate them as much as everyone else does. Yet they continue to happen. Yet we seem to be as a society not knowing how to find a way to get on the journey to healing. Manny that is true. The only thing that comes to mind, i go back to this morning with the chief. Near the top of the press conference he gave one of the best summaries of what it is like to be a policeman in america today, and i have heard from other officers he was saying we put too much on her officers. We expect officers to solve too much of societys problems. Schools fail, give it to the cops. A dog problem, give it to the cops. He says it is too much. We cannot do it all. I have heard that worded differently from a lot of people in Law Enforcement. I think that is part of it. It is part of thinking about what is it we want our officers to be doing . What is the role . And acknowledging what we ask of them when we put them on the front lines. Charlie from the washington post, a president ial campaign suddenly seem small in the face of the shock in dallas. And the racial divisions they exposed again p or co exposed again. He has a point. Manny he does. For the reporters covering this you just start wondering is everyone ok . It does really put things into perspective. There was a false alarm the other day at Dallas Police headquarters. There was word of a suspicious person in a parking garage at the back of the dallas pd headquarters. That caused a scared downtown. Police closed the streets. There were swat officers with weapons. There were members of the public caught up in this because they were at the memorial outside of the headquarters. And, to be there and to talk to regular people and to see how scared they are, it brought that home. It brought some of this there was this idea everyone was like what is happening now . What is this . You know, it struck home. Charlie thank you for coming. It was a pleasure to have you on the program. I hope we can do this again. Manny thank you for having me on. Charlie well be right back. Stay with us. Charlie we continue our conversation about police use of force, force applied and violence applied against the police and the idea of the black lives matter movement. We talk to charles blow, he is a New York Times oped columnists and a contributor to cnn. I am pleased to have him. You say this tears at the fabric of our nation. Give us a sense of how you i mean whenever we see these one more story. One more story of a minority person being shot by the police, we say why . What is wrong . What do we need . I mean, we see Something Like the rebellion against the police we say, how could they do that when these are people who try to support us . Charles there are two things happening simultaneously. There is a focus necessarily on interpersonal racism. What you and i might share back and forth, whatever biases i may have, whether im aware of them or not aware of them read that and that is a very real conflict and heightens situations of stress. There is another conversation being had about the systemic forces of racism that does not require participation by any person. And those are the sort of structures that push these two populations into contact in the first place. I think having both those conversations simultaneously is incredibly important. Charlie some would draw the line back to straight to slavery saying we did not deal with it. Even though there has been racial progress. And laws have been changed. Charles absolutely laws have been changed. Dealing with slavery, you can argue that has not taken place. We have to think about the things that happened after slavery. All of the structural inequities that we and the society into ways from federal, state and local municipalities that created a concentrated poverty we have, created the american ghetto, housing policies of loan banking policies, infrastructure decisions about where we put our highways and streets, and our waste in and out of these cities. All of those are systemic structural beings that we did as a society that created powder kegs and then we say this is a personal choice people have made to live in the most violent, poorest parts of our cities. They simply made the choice to live there. We have designed a system that created those places. Then we say there is violence bubbling up and that is why the police are there. But, it no. We have to take responsibility that we created those places. These are our chickens coming home to roost and we have to deal with untangling all of that at the same time we are dealing with this tip of the spear that last interactions that we are dealing with. And i think all of that has to be done with simultaneously. Charlie to deal with it means what . Charles part of dealing with it, legislative. There are ways to deal with how over policing. We make decisions about whether or not there is a stop and frisk are in new york city or colossal war on drugs. We make cultural decisions that this was how we are going to deal with problems. Dealing with those problems had incredible racial imbalances. Imbalances and embedded in them. We can take legislative steps to change our policies. That is really important. Martin luther king said the law may not make you love me but it can stop you from lynching me. The idea we can do things that will kind of limit the adverse impacts on populations is a real thing. Separate from that there is the moral argument that must be one that says there are not populations that are constitutionally, genetically prone to violence. There are conditions under which human beings behave in certain ways. We have contributed to making those conditions ripe for certain populations in this country and we have to figure out ways to back off from that. Charlie is that leadership or grassroots leadership . President ial leadership . Is all sortsink it of leadership. The president , whoever the next one may be, setting the proper tone. But it is also people voicing , their opinions in protests. Charlie we talked about it, it clearly is the president who has the bully pulpit and who has the executive resources to say we need the full weight of the Community Behind this. This is urgent. This is demanding. This is necessary. Charles he can do that but as you and i both know policing is a local thing. He can talk but there is little the federal government can do with local policing. We have to change hearts and minds. So people who believe they are not part of this discussion, who say this is a conflict between the people who wear blue and the people born into brown and black skin. And that rob is happening separately from me and you. That is actually not the case. You are complicit in whatever please do in this country because police are simply an articulation of our desires and our mores and hour laws. Our laws. That is happening separate from me and you. That is not the case. You are complicit in whatever police do in this country. They are an articulation of our desires and our laws. Charlie are you saying everyone is complicit . When there is an act of violence against an unwanted act of violence, and everybody is complicit in that . Charles what i am saying is we are complicit in the architecture that pushes more and more people together increases the interactions and when you increase the interactions invariably some one person will do one thing wrong and that will be the end result of what we have done to push them together in the first place. Charlie is this a decade kind of endeavor we have to make . Charles these sorts of changes are generational. If you look at the Civil Rights Movement of our times, they have all been generational. They look like it happens within a couple of years but there is a lot of groundwork that happened. The gay movement, womens liberation. All of them. Charlie we always say this about gun control, and these kinds of moments. That this one has been so deep, so troubling, and the combination of baton rouge to dallas, at long last we will wake up. Or do you believe Something Else will come along and two weeks from now we will talk about Something Else . Charles strangely enough i am illogically optimistic. I actually believe there is an awakening of young people being able to connect the dots. Historical, cultural, present about what the system has done and how they make choices. I believe that enlightenment is a positive advance. Whether or not it immediately leads to some sort of peace and no clue. I have i believe however strongly in the longterm effect knowledge and it is in fact a transformative thing in that coming into knowledge of self, knowledge of systems, is a transformative thing and that in intoong run this will we will see all of the ups and downs that it was part of a positive. Charlie i can hear people saying god i hope he is right. I want to talk about black lives matter. Rudy giuliani. I firmly believes he believes what he says. What do you say about it . Charles that it is inherently racist . Charlie and black on black crime, black neighborhoods, and white on white in white neighborhoods. Charles it is fascinating deflection to say people who point out that there are people who have been racially oppressed and want to lift out of that oppression by centering them in the conversation and elevating them to a position where you Pay Attention to the oppression they have suffered become people who you call racist. It is incredible. An incredible thing. And it is an amazing rhetorical sleight of hand that you see all the time. In terms of this idea that black communities are inherently violence and white people are saving black people from killing themselves, that argument is inherently racist because it says at its base that there is something deficient and defective about you, that we must save you from yourselves. Rather the end turning the lens to charlie black lives matter. Where did it start . Charles im not part of black lives matter it gained steam after the Mike Brown Killing in ferguson. It has grown incredibly as an idea. There is both the formal structure of that, there are chapters. But there are people who sympathize. That makes it tricky. We in media will say these are black lives matter protesters. We actually dont know. Sometimes people just show up. You dont have to get a ticket to march. You can just show up and say, i am supporting this idea. Charlie are they having a in impact . Charles an incredible impact. They have grabbed the conversation. They are directing the conversation. You have to think about 34 years ago, he who was advocating for these ideas of police restraint, improvement of black communities on a National Scale that could mobilize people into the streets . There were people who did work but they have been able to in a short time move tremendous numbers of people into action. That should not go without notice. Charlie thank you for coming. Charles thank you for having me. Charlie charles blow from the times. K back in a moment, stay with us. Music note charlie we continue with british politics. The home secretary emerged victorious after speculation about the future of tory leadership. David cameron will hand in his resignation wednesday. He announced he would step down after voters opted to leave the European Union last month read leaving the leading voices in the campaign to leave, she dropped out of the race as well. To talk about the change is John Micklethwait from bloomberg. He is the editorinchief. I am pleased to have him on all things british at this table. Welcome. John a very diminishing role. Charlie so, David Cameron is leaving. Where is he going . John micklethwait he will probably stay in parliament. I think he honestly doesnt know. I think he is in a state of shell shock. I think he always knew there was a danger of losing its. He is generally a lucky politician. Charlie does he consider himself a chosen child . John micklethwait i think he considers himself very unlucky. If johnson and gove had not gone to believe side he probably would have one. He may be right on that. That is what you have seen in the tory leadership. A follow on from that. Theresa may inherited George Osbornes machine. In white he imagined it would be his attempt to be the next tory leader. On the other side. Charlie what happens to George Osborne . John that is the most interesting moment today and in the next couple of days. The big question is, does may keep osborne . Does she go to the foreign current secretary to replace him . A lot of europeans argue they werent enthusiastic about George Osborne but they see him as extremely competent. There will be that forced to keep them in that place. Osborne is less toxic with those people who wanted to leave. Charlie what happens to Boris Johnson . John micklethwait all his life he has been loved. He has been loved, appreciated and make people laugh. He has been the court jester. He was funny and clever and amusing. It seemed to be going quite well. Always fiercely ambitious. Successful as the mayor of london. He saw his chance and a lot friends would say he accepted the referendum to be won by romaine and then he would be the person who led the league campaign. He counted on remain winning. He would deny that to the end of his days. Charlie he created havoc. John micklethwait its a new world for him. David cameron is living on something he always knew was possible. It is very new to him. I think he doesnt have an idea yet. Theresa may was a solid, quite conservative, not necessarily flamboyant figure, the daughter of a pastor, identical to angela merkel. The large reasons they persuaded boris was au think e cannon she was not somebody, she was outside of the mainstream. Charlie how do she differ from David Cameron. John she is slightly left posh background. She is less flamboyant from him. It is difficult to imagine him her going off to the arctic to follow huskies with a lot of sleds. Going off to the arctic. She is tougher. Charlie i bit of margaret thatcher. John less radical. A tiny bit. She is a very conservative person. She has been a little bit at ahead on some things. On one thing she is quite liberal, she has been ahead on things. She was an early supporter of samesex marriage. She was very tough on immigration. More tough than other people. She is a little bit of angela merkel. She has this contin