Wall street journal. Let me start with you, where you basically said republicans gathered here for the political unction, they face a heaviest of questions, but the fundamental one is, is donald merely representing the Republican Party or does he now take ownership of it. Its really a question, not about donald trump but about either behind s him or not. Id he win because hes a guy that took advantage of an especially angry Political Climate . A republican field where the conventional guys sliced each other up and cleared the path . Or does he represent a different kind of Republican Party that was taking shape before he appeared and he just crystallize populace, a little bit working scale, more class, more rural, and antiestablishment Republican Party. Is going to emerge . I dont think we know the answer right now because the republican bety thats here is going to more in his image and likeness. Well see what happens in november but its an open question. What is the Republican Party today . I think its a little like reagan, changing the Republican Party by winning in 1980 that may be happening. It may not be happening. Im not sure we know the answer to that question. Putting it into the context of brexit. This among inting the sense of something much more goingnd and disruptive is on in the undercurrents of society and will this be a establishment e is broken, but an establishment the rge and is that animating force thats driving this today. Thats what i really question. That we, n a moment even trying to step back, cant actually see the profound thats going on. Charlie i want to mention one point. Is here. Oger stone sometimes he has Donald Trumps ear, whatever the relationship this is a war against the establish in. Both parties. Republicans and democrats. Both parties and out of both parties. I agree completely. I have not thought from the this election this is about donald trump. I thought it was about the disillusioned so with politics, the institutions, and want fundamental change in our lives, how we run our economies and run all of ur institutions, businesses, churches and schools. Especially government and politics. Eithergoing to happen is donald trump will win and people will be really angry when they changed the country, hasnt lived up to his hes going to lose to your point, its not just the Republican Party. Parties, they are like dinosaurs and the meteor has his. To the its hit closer Republican Party but its shaken them to their knees and we wont until weof this period have huge fundamental reform. Both parties, maybe makes one go away and we have a you this way of governing and running campaigns. About it this way. Were here watching the nomination of a republican is idential candidate who estranged from the chamber of commerce. From the bush family. Hes estranged from the romney family. From the governor of ohio where we sit. There is something going on here. Coming uctant support from the speaker of the house of the former speaker house, and the majority leader in the senate. I dont think weve seen anything quite like that. 1980 when there was a certain antiestablishment tone candidacy. Gan he had been governor of the largest state in the country for republican. As a 120 years ago, we had a huge conomic transition, huge technological change and created ic shifts that a time when people felt distant from their institutions. They were down on politics. A lot of first term president s. Congress, and 1895 . 1925. 5 to big populace movement that teddy and the other reformers, eventually to roosevelt and wilson. In both the republican and Democratic Party that realigned our politics. Movement . Re a if they draw these parallels from what the vote was in brexit even though they werent it have s does significant similarities . I think the tenor is very similar. Result may or may not be similar. A lot of people, i think, walked nto the ballot booth in the u. K. And voted for brexit thinking they were making a statement, not making a right . On, then they looked up the next morning and said, oh, really . We do have to leave now . Thought you were going i thought you were going to offset my votes so we wouldnt have to do. In well see whether november people who like the idea that donald trump is shaking up the system can walk into the ballot booth and pull the lever. Donald trump thought about this . No way. Hates this entire process. If it was up to him it would be businessmen, people in the people who have gone through and his family. This entire n for process, a process thats encapsulate, shining moment on the hill, make America Great and hes just treating it just something he has to get through. Hes an unnatural leader of what was a significant politicsll in the body of america. I dont know if i would call him a leader. Benefitted from what were creating. Ere just starting to wake up and realize how much power we each have as an individual. More power than at the beginning of humanity. Sociomedia and other technologies allow us to find aser people who are as angry we are over some things. Harlie underappreciated fact about the Trump Movement but also the sanders movement. I think a lot of this is rooted dysfunction of washington, nothing happens. So all because of ideology touch comes along and says i can done. Ings hes making an effectiveness argument. Sanders movement is rooted in same thing. His supporters say we would like a minimum wage a dollar higher washington can agree on that so we might as well ask for a 15 minimum wage. Anything else t done well ask for what we want and set our standards there because nothing will happen anyway. By the times. Aped these are kids who grew up pushing a button and everything happened immediately. They want that kind of response out of government and they arent getting it. Of other institutions. They watch 3,000 people melt in tower. They see their generation go off to work. They want purpose, purpose in of their life and they are not seeing any purpose coming out of washington. We can talk about the Political Parties will change. And about government governorness . They are demanding a different kind of system. System they feel more connected to. This movement, you know, this is off, to be the last dying in the future, we will see kind of new types of maybe a lot around the edges seems rougher but it will be more nature, just because social media inform the way connect. An its so much more intimate even though you may not be facetoface. Michigan, for t example. Why is it, even though everything has gone well in lint it will take months for people to realize their water was being poisoned . The way Government Works now you make a problem. You study it. Work with other agencies. Then you decide what the problem will be and then you come to the people and say, we have a solution for this problem we you about. D every Public Health test transparent and private transparent . Kind of thinking that this generation will bring to government and completely change things. We do why donald trump . Hy is he among all the people in america . But hes benefitting the most in the political world. Could argue, hes a t dog who caught the bus. Were description a bus and he arrived. Not different, i think, than he was 20 years ago. Hes had political ambitions for a while. He happened to arrive at a crystallized. Is is that right or did he just rent the party . Not as profound and hes just an aberration . If it is him its because he saying the right things at the right time. That d ron say, and in fact, this is a profound change. Its not about renting anything. This is fact, impact on the imts republican and Democratic Party. Donald trump is benefiting from the way things have changed. If, at a time like this, had if a man like huey long twitter and the internet. Would history have changed . Landscape. Whole new where not only can a guy like donald trump affect change in a way but each of us can. You now have hundreds of housands of demagogues on twitter. You can argue donald trump resources,use he had b, he was he understood media. Had celebrity, and those enabled him to jump in front of aspired to take advantage of, to identify with, connect with. He understands the one thing he understands better than nyone outside is how social media is used. He saw, its a trolling system. To insult people. Thats what its used for. He definitely mastered that. About putting out positive messages about your campaign. Actually what people like to do is roast and burn each other. He saw that way before we d. He is a ealized Media Business and he realized he was big business to those media companies. Created hink the media donald trump but the media responded to him, it was the insaberablee saw our ppetite for the biggest circus he was bringing to town. Shell very much have to grapple they go when headtohead. Thats not going to stop. What he brings. Pick up on your metaphor that hes the dog that caught the bus. With this happening hundreds of populace buses. They are moving out of the across the spectrum people demanding change. Onald trump quantity of those buses. He speaks for a small just a and ion of the populace hes speaking to them, they may make i am president. 2008, barack obama caught the bus by promising hope and change be done, too. No one is doing it in this election. If you listen carefully around here this week and listen to Trump Supporters an the Trump Campaign, there is the lying hillary and crooked hillary, thats fine. Thats your twitter conversation about. Oure talking there are another couple of words that are coming out now hat i think it represents their attempt to take advantage of this climate. Not just ed, describing her but the whole clinton campaign. Thats what they will say. Stale old. Is the they represent Hillary Clinton her campaign epresents the stale, old politics that weve come to stop and thats the different kind of contrast. Change is anish every campaign. Right. Actually now, this is the worst time probably in our ifetimes to be running as a status quo candidate. The only thing thats saving illary clinton, two things, one, a Democratic Party has huge demographic and electoral ollege advantage but the biggest thing is shes rung against donald trump. Hes such an imperfect candidate status quo candidate you know what will happen . The establishment, including a populace will say, a an never win, the people have the power of the establishment, and somebody will figure this out. And take things over. Charlie explain on that more. Well, i happen to think that donald trump, you know, probably is not going to beat Hillary Clinton. Nd Hillary Charlie because of the demographic advantage . And because hes such an advantage. All of those things dont stack up very well compared to her mightis why this election defy the times and you could win. A status quo candidate people arent going to say im satisfied with the status quo. Not talking just about trump people. Everybody demanding change and the one politics is institution in their country hasnt been disrupted. Look at whats happened in thes 10 years. What happened to the media country, in every institution except government and politics. So it can go one of two ways in the next four, eight, 10, 12 years. Have a democrat going who is smoother and more who ble than donald trump, takes over the country in a hughey way, a slicker, long with the internet. Or could you have somebody, with barack obamaons, a model, who runs and actually is credible hope and does change things in a positive way a teddy roosevelt. Charlie donald trump doesnt necessarily mean a celebrity. Be overwhelmed by celebrity candidates. I dont think thats true but here will be a necessity for politicians in the future to communicate with voters in a different way. 10point policy papers and its not staged speeches. Its pot to be more personal. An open k there is question and this goes back to the beginning of our what happens act after a trump loss . Does the Republican Party snap ideologically to where it had been in which case a paul ryan or ted cruz is back in or has it moved past that . I dont think we know the answer to that question, but its an question because of what were seeing in cleveland this week and what the party has gone year. Gh so far this charlie big moment for this convention is on thursday night. To do . Es trump need he needs, i think the challenge for the Trump Campaign s to make america as comfortable with the donald trump as a president. An you see him being your president . Him in the oval office . Right now thats not something people are comfortable enough with to do that. Charlie how he does he do it . He has to look president ial. Results. Ixed but i think he has to look as if hes mastered some of the things does talking about that he have a grasp of politics that his a reasonable guy and not necessarily a hot head. You get a chance you get a few big chances to do that, a at your convention where youre accepting the nomination is one of those. Hes not going to do any of though. Hings, his own advisers openly say were not going to do any policy because its a campaign and different. Thats what i think is so interesting. We keep waiting for him to to change ecting him to be more president ial, stay on message, i dont think hes going to do those things. In his dna . Its not in his dna, hes not going to change and hell keep he does. T the key thing is he may win. Put it, he said i think brexit was a more candidate than donald trump s. Im not so sure. People want to smash things. Very imperfect, receptacle to that but if he wanting gh behind him to do that he could coast him. I think hes going to do what erry d. Lets assume he doesnt. He comes out, gives a speech, the teleprompter and gives credible speech. Since the bar is so low well say great speech, hes pivoted changed things but dont forget how much the world has changed since we used terms like pivoted and since we all assume you only have a few moments. Back when we were the have a ers you did only few moments. We would only let the public three or four on debates, Big Convention day, when we were really marshalling media, y around, old right . Now donald trump will be exposed to the public all the time, on social media, in the new way we do things, every day, practically all day long, so he put on an act one day, but what is he going to do the next day and the next . Going to change himself consistently for the next three months because that what he has to do. No longer being able to change peoples minds in one day. They will be looking the next to see if its real or not. You cant fake your way through. These are the other big charlie, three president ial debates with Hillary Clinton, how does gi who can lick a the job they may like Hillary Clinton think sheher but they can handle the job. In the last debate, he convinced people they were with him as a president. You will remember, thats when thats when the was hit and int everything moved his way. Charlie the added advantage, he had been governor for two terms. Forget, things have changed. He could do really good in the debates, really good a orrow but if he acts like rest of the convention as flawed as he is in the poles, and in many ways, its less than three points, not bad a guy who is so flawed. Partly because hes a change andidate running in a time of change and partly because hes running against a woman who destroyed her credibility. Charlie joining me now is roger stone. A republican strategist and longtime friend and adviser to trump. Ill pleased to have him to talk about donned trump and to talk roger stone. Welcome. Great to be here. And ie how long have you donald trump known each other 1979. Have known him since i was given this card file of the friends of ronald and nancy reagan in new york and i went card file and half the people in the card file were dead. He rest of them charlie old friends . The rest were agents and producers but there was a card for roy m. Cohen, law. Rney at i contacted cohen and i pitched him on why i thought reagan need win and he said, you donald trump. You need donald and fred trump. Do you know donald trump . I said no, i only know who he is. A meeting. Donald said give me a pitch. Opinion of low jimmy carter. Charlie this was in 1980, 36 ago. S yes, sir. Thats right. 36 years ago, donald trump probably 35, Something Like that, 34. When was the last time you to him . Saturday. Charlie what was the conversation . I had gone to the roll out of trumppence in new york. Flight to ssed my cleveland to go do that and he was on his game. It was the best speech i have long time. Ive in a charlie which one . This is when he talked about, mediaroduced pence to the in new york on a saturday morning. But he gave a shorter version of and then speech first he pivoted to the accomplish it is of mike pence in indiana, and that he liked pence because he was a job creator. Spirits. As in great i mean, i really think hes improved dramatically as a candidate. Ou have to remember hes never done this before. There is a difference between being a media personality and for president te of the United States. Charlie being a media helps . Ality or actor i dont think you could do it if you hadnt been. Charlie thats what ronald did . N yes. His larger than life quality, his status is whats drawing enormous crowd. People want to see donald trump. These other guys rung for respect, with all due they are just conventional politicians. Star has a charisma and a quality that, you know, is larger than all of that. Bigger than ign is the Republican Party. Much bigger. Charlie hes bigger than the Republican Party . Think the perform agenda that he represents is bigger than the Republican Party. State of home florida, 325,000 more people voted for donald trump than mitt romney in the primary four years ago. When you look back and check on are, they are le people who havent voted in recent years or they are new voters who only registered in i think he has an ability to draw