Election. How does it look from london . Guest like a reality tv show. It certainly is. It worries us. Shocke the combination of at the politics and a huge concern. Charlie in terms of language . Guest language, topics, norms being changed. I arrived on sunday night and i watched the debate and i thought i was walking watching the Jerry Springer show. You had to pitch yourself to think that this is a debate between two people who are the candidates for the presidency of the United States. Charlie and are suggesting they are prepared to lead the free world. Guest absolutely. And what worries me is the consequences of this could linger. Even if Hillary Clinton wins, you can see the consequences potentially caught because there will be a faction of the country that thinks their president should be in jail. Charlie that is a conversation taking place. Guest and the conversation about Hillary Clinton and the misogyny of it and it is all just really depressing. Charlie you do not see this language in british politics . This you do, but not on scale. No. And this is the United States and the leader of the free world. Charlie what do they worry about with Hillary Clinton, her authority will be challenged because of all of this and to the accusations of the campaign and the levels of trust, which leaders need . Guest exactly right. If you have a large faction of the population thinking that the president is dishonest, that is a problem. And there is a shadow of the racism, the misogyny, all of the awful things said during the campaign, it is hard to put that behind you. Securely when there is a group particularly when they think that the system is so broken, that you need donald trump to shake it up the regardless of his downsides. And the anger those people have will make it hard to put this thing behind you. Hopefully you can and we will look back and see the savvy terrible aberration. Charlie rather than a transformative event . Guest one hopes to transforms for the better. Charlie this is an indicator of what is the come. Guest that would be terrible. Charlie more people in celebrity. Phrase that we put on our cover recently, where nobody is talking about policy, fax facts, no one can agree on the facts. This is a difficult environment to have. Us outside the u. S. , the prospect of many of the proposals that donald trump is talking about are terrifying. Charlie in terms of trade . Guest in terms of america. Charlie shutting down america . Guest yes. The nonchalance with which they have fundamentally different views of america in the world. The idea that american isdership, geopolitically, in his view, inc. Aronson a garrison mentality. Charlie he looks at what happened in Great Britain and he says, you had the brexit vote and nobody thought that leave would triumph and it did and they were part of a movement, and i am leading a movement. It is motivated by the same guest he is right in that sense. On both sides of the atlantic, a large number of people are angry about the status quo. Charlie globalization has left them behind. Guest yes and if they think the political system is rigged. There is an anger that comes partly in large part from a sense of living style, economic insecurity, a desire that immigrants, or the feeling that they have a lot to do with the problem. I think it is serious and we need to separate repulsion against some of the excesses of donald trump, with from the underlying concerns that are animating the supporters. They are real and genuine. Charlie it has to do with economic insecurity. Guest a sense of cultural insecurity. Charlie the middle class. Guest and the racial complexion of the u. S. Is changing. But there are important areas where we have to respond and i sayk it is insufficient to there is nothing we can do for these people. There has to be a huge amount of serious economic change, but the important thing is to have the conversation, but you cannot if people are hurling insults at each other. Charlie you would hope they would be a real debate about it. And we may have been part of the mistakes made. Guest it is very hard to have that conversation with when you cannot get people to go beyond the insult hurling. You are right. And if you look at the political campaign, there has been little discussion of any kind of policies. Hillary clinton has many policies that maybe they have not been subjected to scrutiny because the parameters of the ofate have been awful, sort demagoguery and racial misogyny and things. I think the cost is that you do not have the important discussions that you need. And you have another risk. Peoples real concerns not being addressed. Charlie and their departure from the system could take place. Zenny absolutely. And you mentioned brexit, and in some sense it is a very sobering tale for what can happen. It was a vote of anger, anger against the system. It was not a vote for a particular kind of brexit. Charlie for a particular candidate. Zenny now were dealing with consequences and suddenly, this is why the pound is tumbling and why Great Britain seems a less stable place, people, it is dawning on them how difficult it will be if we do have a hard brexit and how it will affect the market. The economic damage could be serious. There is a sense that the government is a less welcoming to foreigners. And there is a kind of it is not a pretty picture. Charlie how serious do you fear the rise of populism in europe, in countries . Zenny i think it is happening. As you can see, it is happening. The broad theme of what is going on in european politics, the Center Ground is disappearing and the populist right is becoming the main opposition. And you have a sense of disenchantment with the status quo, it is translating into a grabbing for what seems to be easy populist solutions club put up the barriers my protectionism , antiimmigration sentiment. And the tragedy is, those kinds of policies will make everybody much for poorer. And the economic damage could lead us to a dangerous world. We have not been able to have the debate and have a conversation about the what do you do to push back the populace. Charlie so in terms of stories and editorial opinions, what makes for trade, what is the argument for trade . Zenny we were founded to fight for the cause of free trade. The true believers of that. We put on our cover a couple of weeks ago, talking about this. The basic argument is that trade improves prosperity, it creates a bigger pie. It does not mean that every Single Person is better off and the challenge we face is how to ensure those people that lose in trade, are assisted so they can get skills charlie the argument the resources of zenny commencement of resources. It is the same issue with immigration. It can boost an economy. You have to ensure that there is investment in housing, education, Health Muscle you have the resources for those people. But in both cases, the pie gets bigger and the economy is better off. Charlie the president really an essay on the economy, what is his argument . Zenny it is interesting. We do not usually run these, but 10 years ago we did have a piece by tony blair. The reason we ran this was because in the context of this freeordinarily, fact political environment, this was a very serious, thoughtprovoking attempt to lay out what he thought was the challenges for the American Economy and he listed improving productivity, making the economy more resilient, so it was striking in its thoughtfulness. That is more than you would get an economic discussions right now. And it was a very clear pitch for the center, it was protrade, proglobalization and pushing back against the left of his own party and to the nativist right. And it struck me as well written, but it was a really thoughtful and thought provoking layout of the challenges. And we do not agree with all of it, but we thought it was charlie what part did you not agree with . Zenny regulation is a big part of the economy, if you want to improve productivity, you need to do more to deal with that. And if there were things, parts where we wouldve shifted emphasis. Charlie i just did an interview with john boehner and they came that close to a grand bargain. They should have dealt with entitlement reforms, tax reforms, it wouldve dealt with these issues. They came that close and that close does not matter. Zenny that is the tragedy. And the tragedy is still with us. Charlie the possibility that washington again, if you look at polls today, you will assume Hillary Clinton will win, but the election is four weeks from now and anything can change. Zenny that is the most likely outcome right now. Charlie is anything going to change . Zenny it depends on the election. Charlie and whether they control the house or neither. Zenny you can see the donald trump outcome probably unlikely, but there is such revulsion at what is going on with donald andp and republicans, democrats, the senate and possibly even the house. Unlikely. But then you would have Hillary Clinton with the capacity to push a lot through. Even her first few years. Charlie obama had that. You have to remember that. Zenny remember what happened . Charlie dealing with an economic challenge. Zenny and then you have polarization that came after. The most likely outcome is that she faces a republican congress. And you put that together with the sort of hate filled rhetoric that we have now and you have a grim prospect for domestic policy. It will not be pretty. Charlie let me talk about global economics. We have stalled it seems. Zenny have we ever accelerated . Charlie and to the British Government before we go. Where do you think the Global Economy is in terms of growth . You look at china and they are declining in their own growth rate and you look at Commodity Prices around the world, we see it is up to 50, oil. Cooperation among the oilproducing states in order to raise the price of oil even higher. But there is a kind of stagnation it seems. Zenny we have had what is now a relatively long expansion, but it never really got going since the financial crisis. And there was stagnation isnt this the permanent norm . There is speculation about when the fed will raise rates. Central banks around the world charlie more of an argument to do it. Zenny absolutely. So i see little sign leading to the acceleration. I think the risk is on the downside. China is in a difficult transition from investment driven to consumer driven and it has a huge debt load. And europe, both for reasons of populism and brexit, it has a massive debt problem. Charlie and a lot of unemployment. Zenny the emerging economies, many of them have hit bottom. Brazil charlie because demand is not what it was. Zenny and they went on a credit binge. The biggest bright lights is and was the u. S. , and here the question is what happens after the election and into 2017 . It is not clear that the u. S. Will be a driver of sudden acceleration. Charlie what will happen to the pound . Zenny what has happened . It is one of the worst performing currencies this year. Againstumbled, down 18 the dollar, 6 in the last 10 days. It is primarily because people realize Great Britain is going for a hard brexit and it would be outside the single market, meaning that we will be poorer. And i think there is uncertainty about the British Government and if they have a plan. Charlie what is it about the government that makes it uncertain . Zenny it became clearer last week one, they are determined to go for a hard brexit, theresa may putting it in motion. Charlie if you want out, you are out. Zenny yes and take the consequences. And if there is a large section of people in her government that want to do that. Charlie Boris Johnson is part of that . Zenny yeah. And the more you look at that, the more the economic costs become clear. And also the realization that they have no plan to do it. To have people that know it will have economic costs, and the third thing, some of the rhetoric emerging from the conference was very antiforeigner, very interventionist. Charlie interventionist . Zenny we need the state to help. In a way that was not i am all for helping ordinary people, but there was industrial policy and particularly in an antiforeigner way. She said something like, you consider yourself a citizen of the world, you do not know what the word citizenship means. It was Little England mentality and that is a polar opposite of what england could be. We could be singapore on the thames, or we can be Little England and try to put up barriers, you need to be english and we do not like foreigners. I think the concern is the government could be more that way. And that scares people. Charlie what will happen in terms of with brexit, will you see Financial Institutions move out of london . Zenny depends how hard it is, but yes, we are increasingly hearing Financial Institutions that have plans and will activate them. It depends on the relationship between the European Union and britain after we leave. And after june, i hope that good sense would prevail and we have a relationship that would allow access to Financial Services that will keep britain in the financial market. And the more we hear what they are planning to do, you hear people say that is not what we are going to get, so we have come to learn that doing business in europe, they will be rethinking. And a Big Companies will invest that invested in britain, they will be rethinking. In the end, i am sure that we will not have a relationship where we have hugely high tariffs between britain and europe, but the uncertainty of what it will look like and the worry that it will be a further apart relationship, if you are investing, a big company having a Huge Investment in u. K. , you would have worry. Charlie indeed. I remember president obama because i was there at the time, i remember him in london saying, if you leave, you will have to get to the back of the line. The biggeror question, the complexity of negotiating new trade agreements is mindboggling. Britain cannot do that until they leave the eu. It then has to reapply for membership of the World Trade Organization as an individual country, it is now a member as part of the eu. There is a complex of things that need to happen. And right now in this populist, antitrade environment, the ease with which countries will agree to trade deals is much harder than it was. So it will take years for the brits to renegotiate trade deals. And in the interim, we are not sure what the rules and regulations will be. And that shelley eventually, where it is up will depend on a few things. Where ins up with the eu. Is. The transition what kind of a transition arrangement would it be . And the best outcome would be the closest possible relationship ideally inside the single market. And a long transition time for people to adjust, and sensible open policies in britain. In my worry is that some of those will have a worse outcome. Charlie let me touch on something. Syria . This is a tragedy. It is an international tragedy. Zenny tomorrows historians will look back and question what on earth we were doing. It is senseless. Charlie how could the world stand by . Zenny awful. And i am afraid, a big stain on this president s record. Charlie president obama. Zenny absolutely. I long thought that historians will look at his domestic record and rank him as a very successful president. Charlie even though obamacare has problems. Zenny of course, and it will be amended and changed. And the stimulus package and the response to the financial crisis. People will look back and say, the right things were done, it was not perfect, but the right things were done. But the Foreign Policy, the record is more mixed. Asia, that was a sensible one, but the vacuum in the middle east and the perception that the u. S. Does not care. And the red line in syria and the ignoring of it in syria, they have really damaged not just the perception of america, but it is a fundamental and the inability it becomes much clearer outside the u. S. How much in america how much it matters. In the arab world, the absence of the u. S. Has made a huge difference. Charlie that could be the difference, if Hillary Clinton is elected, between the Foreign Policy views. Hawkish. Parently more zenny there is a cool rationalism to the approach from president obama, which is logical and rational. I can see it makes sense from a narrow perspective, it is a very intellectual approach, but i think it underplays the importance to the world that the perception of america is leading. Charlie and the fact he has said, do not do stupid stuff. Because he did not want to do stupid stuff. Zenny and it is completely understandable, but the consequences of that shift has been damaging. Charlie here is the economist magazine. With the president , the article he wrote. And over here, there is a very successful Digital Company called snapchat. [laughter] charlie what does snapchat have to do with the economy . Zenny last weekend, you could see the economist on snapchat. We launched last weekend. Every weekend, we will provide snaps. Why are we doing it . Charlie tell me what it will be. Zenny do you know about snapchat . Charlie i do. But when i think about it, i do not think about the economist. I think of people who want to look at a picture that will disappear. Zenny there are a number of publications that produce concepts for snapchat, you scroll and get text, but there has not been many publications like the economist. We had a series of snaps on jobs of the future. Every weekend, once a week, we will take a topic and look at it and do it at snapchat format and it will be our kind of rigor, but in the format of snapchat. It will be engaging for the snapchat users. Charlie think of for coming. We will be back in a moment. Zenny sturgill Charlie Sturgill simpson is here, winning over audiences and respect from country legends. His hard edge sound paired with his existentia