Turkey. And i am very pleased to have him back. Welcome. You are a traveling man. Bono i am a traveler, that is it. That is it. I guess i signed up when i joined a rock and roll band at age 16. Charlie indeed. With a couple of teenage friends. Tell me about how nice and how close that was. Bono when you talk about these things, it is easy to forget that your drama is such a tiny shard of the dramas going on around you. But yeah, we were there. It was bastille night. We were looking at the fireworks. We left and came back to the table. Realized we first something was wrong when a police car reversed down a oneway street. And from there, taken away, then a stampede, tables and chairs thrown everywhere. This woman and her son, huddled. I got our party back to the window and under tables. We brought this woman and her son. The heavy thing about it was, he was calming her down, he was like a 10yearold. Saying, mama, it is ok. I think she was having a panic attack. We werent panicked. I dont know, maybe growing up in ireland, it is probably just spookseworks that people. But of course we were thinking, and you have these awful thoughts. You look at a bloody knife, you think, is there a gunman coming through. Awful thoughts. The local services they were , amazing. The french did it right. They made sure everyone was safe. I was very grateful to them. And tried to pay respect to the families. But it is that is really all that matters. Charlie you are right about that. But people were concerned about you because of what happened to so many innocent souls. Bono the second time in france for us. We were in paris that night, we were rehearsing a mile away when all of that went off. It keeps happening. Charlie that was to be the final venue for the tour. Bono yes. We went back two weeks later. The band that had been through the ordeal, we brought them on stage at the end of our show. That was a big moment. People have the power people have the power yeah people have the power people have the power people have the power people have the power bono there is a thing about these terrorist groups. They love the phenomena of the gray zone, which is where people get on. Christians and muslims. They loathe the gray zone where people mingle. And they want to divide us. I thought, when we went back, it wasnt about the melody, it was about harmony. That is what i felt. It wasnt about our song, it was about the crowd singing it back to us. It is powerful. Rock n roll as an act of defiance. Charlie indeed it is. Always, that is the first thing i think about when i think about rock n roll. Bono there is nothing more romantic. It is the essence of romance. And joy is the ultimate act of defiance. If you think of music, the beatles or mozart or beethoven, i mean, you know irish people, we can surrender to melancholy any day of the week and cry into a beer. What i am really attracted to u2 was formed on that idea of pure joy as an act of defiance. Charlie the music continues. Bono the music, remember, it gives me the currency. It has given us alive. And our music was always wrapped around social justice. Which is where you and i met. Fighting extreme poverty. That is how i got in the door. People were not expecting i wouldnt leave. But when i would be in capitol hill, people would take the meeting just to sort of have a look at this exotic creature or whatever, a rock n roll person. But then i didnt leave. Charlie with all the passion you have for social activism, in any way does it diminish the music . Bono it has been a source of pride for the band, but i know i have embarrassed them a lot. There are people i have met they wouldnt want me to meet. And i remember bringing jesse helms to the show. Edge was upset about that. In regards to time, it is odd. For me, i see all the stuff i do as the same thing. They might see it as a multipersonality disorder. But i see melodies and ideas as being the same thing. Or even little businesses. Start ups. They are like melody lines to me. A great melody, a great idea have a lot in common. Theres something unique, present. There is this sort of arc, a beautiful arc. And a certain inevitability. You feel you know where it is going, even though you have never seen one before. I feel that about the one campaign. Or red or anything i do. Charlie do you feel because of the accident in the park, the guitar is not there . Bono some would say it is never was never there. [laughter] charlie you would say that but your band would not. Bono they would, actually. Nt but they would would. [laughter] charlie now that you cant play the guitar like you did, does it mean the idea is swimming alone . Bono that is interesting. Well, i am sure you have had these moments where suddenly you are very mortal. And i have had a few of them. Discovering my head was not as hard as everything i tried to against, not as hard as the ground, is humbling to me. I was not expecting that. I have always been on top of things. And my body edge says i look at my body like an inconvenience. [laughter] bono i never thought about that. Charlie i do too. Bono on my back, i had time to think about things. I had time to let the music come through me. We have written some incredible songs, i think. It is not about some stupid bike accident. But it is about realizing there is an elastic limit in your life. And you as an artist dont feel dont see limits, but you as a person are now part of that. And im not sure i like that very much. Charlie you went back in the last album, songs of innocence. It was about your mother, it was about dublin. It was about musical influences. There is a sense that you both go forward and you come back. Bono maybe you have to go back. Maybe that is what that is about. I never listen to our music. The band doesnt. We are always thinking about where we are going. But on the last album, i decided i need to know, why am i like this . Where do i come from . What is this rage . Why am i in a band . All of those kinds of questions. And i got to these ordinary situations that lots of people have had, where they go, my mother died when i was 14. And you know, you will get over it. But the way i got over it was, of course, i went into music. I lost myself in music. I went to the crowds. That became that sort of love i was missing in my life. Living in a house in the north side of dublin with two men that i was fighting with. That is where the music came from. Music is alchemy. We turn our into gold. That is it. Charlie you once said, if we are close to music, we are close to each other. Bono music is the language of the spirit. I mean, you as a sort of jazzman conversationalist, you are the way that you move around the table with words. But actually it is when we shut , up that another kind of talking goes on. A spiritual life, whatever you want to call it. Music, i think, connects us with our spirit. Our spiritual life. And i think all music is worship, actually. And if it is not god, it can be anything. You can be woman, it can be a lot of bad things. It is always worship. Charlie you just had a hugely successful tour. I dont dream i dont think about you that much all those broken things and your broken wings they melt away i am more than you know body and soul me start to see i am here i am here there is no there charlie beyond the money, beyond promoting the album, does it speak to you in terms of how the audience sees the songs . Do you get feedback from them about the lyrics . Bono it is very passionate. Charlie we fight. Bono we fight with our audience. Like a lovers quarrel. I would leap into the audience, wrestle with them. There was a concert in the 1980s, i was in my early 20s. I went into the audience with a white flag. Charlie i remember that. Yes, yes. Bono it was on the cover. The Los Angeles Times said, the most irresponsible thing they had ever seen. I went in with a white flag and people were ripping the flag and i started smacking them. Me making this whole sort of nonviolent protest. And then i am in all of that. That relationship with our audience is everything to this band. That is where we live. Our albums and our recordings are good. We have done some good stuff. Charlie yes you have. Bono but it is great, because it is lies. Live. It is present, it is different. It changes, even if we are not improvising, it is always different. You are right. The audience changes the song and the change it every night. You pick up their feelings in the room. A song can mean something paris than in new york. It means something different. Thisall of this, all of can be yours all of this, all of this can be yours just give me what i want and no one gets hurt hello, hello vertigo place called lights go down and all i know that you give me something i can feel your love teaching me how your love is teaching me how to kneel charlie do you like rehearsals . Bono no, im not good at rehearsals. Which is why i am here, by the way. [laughter] bono they dont know i am here. This is the story of my life. Charlie you dont like it . Bono i dont like it. I cannot connect. Getting into the songs for me is commitment. I wake up in the morning feeling nauseous and i need to step inside the songs. When it is going great, the songs are singing you. And it is a transcendent thing. La, la, la, la, la la a, la, la, peace. He mercy of love bono that doesnt happen all the time. There is a deep fear it is going to be you singing them. So and that is rehearsing, what is the point . Charlie writing, is it hard for you to write a song . Bono no. I have been writing melodies since i was a kid. Since piano keys were taller than my head. So i remember, and i did not learn to play, but i remember putting my foot on the pedal and finding out where the reverb was and making a sound, and then finding another note that felt good with that as a child. So i had that. Charlie what is this talent . Bono i dont know what it is. Charlie it is a gift. Bono i guess it is. I guess that is why we shouldnt be arrogant. Having a gift, it is like an inherited wealth. Being talented, i tell this to people, be humble. Be humble. You didnt work for this. This is a gift. We are given gifts. To have such beauty and talent, how did that happen . [laughter] charlie take songs of experience. How many have you written . Bono 16 songs on the cooker. We have to boil it down to 10 or 12. I would rather it be 10, but it will probably be 12. Charlie what is it about . What is the question you are asking this time . Bono there is a great poet, we were discussing him before we came on. Charlie a remarkable book. He won a nobel prize. A great irish poet. Bono the last poem, called kite. I think it is about his death premonition. Another poet advised me once, he said, to write as if you are dead. Charlie i know. Bono he said, to do that is to be free of ego. You are free. You are gone. You are out of here. Charlie to please nobody but yourself. Bono i have taken that position and i have written personal songs to people. To my kids, our kids. To friends. To our audience. And then i caught myself writing to myself, but i did not know it was me. And i was like what is this what about . There is one called, the Little Things that give you away. Who is that about . Me. Charlie there is one called the morning after innocence. Bono yes. That is the theme of it. It has changed. Funny, that is odd. I told you about that. I shouldnt have. That song, the morning after innocence, turned into Little Things that give you away, which i just told you about. Serendipity. Charlie i was calling it compromise. Bono right. Charlie it is personal. What was the compromise . Bono i sometimes think that the younger me, he was very black and white, a bit judgmental. A bit of a pain in the. To be honest. But right a lot. Inrlie as incorrect as correct. Bono might look at me now and be disappointed. I have written a couple of songs from that point of view. Although i feel i have earned of earned freedom as a person as well as a writer that i didnt have as a younger man. Charlie we talked about terrorism and how it is all around us. It is in paris and the United States. It is in brussels and his it is everywhere. There is also Politics Today in which some people are very worried about forms of populism. They see it in europe, a move to the right. Even in france. They worry about it here. I mean when you look at donald , trump, and his candidacy, and you have said wonderful things about america. You said that america was more than a nation, an idea. Does trump come to you as somebody who is a change agent . Because people are so unhappy about the status quo . Or does he come to you as Something Else . Bono look, america is the best idea the world ever came up with but donald trump is potentially the worst idea that ever happened to america. Potentially. He could destroy us. Because of what we are saying. America is not just a country. Ireland is a nice country. Great britain is a great country. All the rest. America is an idea. That idea is bounded up in justice and equality for all. Equality and justice for all. And this you know, i think of lazarus, those lines, give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses, yearning to breathe free. This is america. This is not from Donald Trumps playbook. Look, i have spent 20 years, nearly 20 years now, fiercely bipartisan. I am going to stay that way. And i have enormous respect for the party of abraham lincoln. Some of the greatest workers, they come from conservative traditions republicans are close , friends of mine. I dont think he is a republican. Charlie what is it . Bono i think he has hijacked the party. I think he is trying to hijack the idea of america and i think it is bigger than all of us. I think it is this is really dangerous. Wise people of , conscience should not let this man turn your country into a casino. Charlie why do you think this race running against a , United States senator, the first lady, and the race is about even. Bono i would not diminish trump supporters, underestimate their angst. Because i feel in a way, they have correctly assessed the center parties have not yet become clear. Charlie in other words, you are saying the angst is real and genuine. The sense that i worry about my country and where it is. Bono there are very real problems facing not just america, facing europe. And remember who is in the white , house . I am irish. I do not have a vote. I cant tell people how to vote and dont want to. But i can say who sits in that office really affects everyone in this world. Charlie you seem to be saying, that this is an absence of i worry he will put the country at risk. I worry about his instincts. Bono yes, i worry on every single front. And the lack of civility. Common decency. Things have been bad enough in congress. Do we really want this kind of in the oval office . This is a sacred office. This is an incredible country. The people will wake up out of this dream. They shouldnt make a protest vote with him. Charlie some will argue that part of the issue of his rise has to do in part with her, that she is not a popular candidate. People want to see change and they dont think they will get change with her. They are prepared to take a chance. A popbecause she is not star, a show woman, she is not simplistic . Charlie whether or not she is something. I spoke it spoke about it last week. They recognize that there was this issue of trust. There is clearly part so mad. At is a of all the mad things. Just on a purely psychological a if imestly is all overre, she us. It is tough love with her. She is very proper. It is so mad people thinks there is a something nefarious, because she is the opposite. This privacy thing, maybe she has gone overboard. Who can blame her, with that history . I dont want to try to tell people how to vote. I cant do that. But i am really alarmed and im ready to speak in a way i havent spoken for 20 years. Charlie this is not comfortable for you, but you are doing it because you feel like what . Bono because i feel like this country is in real danger. This is a dangerous moment. There is climate change. There is Nuclear Weapon proliferation. There is terrorism. There is all kinds of stuff. The biggest danger might be right here. Fear of the other. I am irish, can you imagine how i feel when he talks about illegal aliens . Half the irish people have probably overstayed their visas. Mexican people are some of the most Extraordinary People you have met in your life. They are working doing , incredible jobs. Some very sophisticated, some americans do not want to do. I am irish. I am very offended. We were refugees, economic refugees. We got off the boat smelling bad. We were rough. No blacks and irish, we know the story. But we have made a contribution to america. I think most americans will agree, the irish are part of your story. Charlie the country is built on immigrants. Bono the country is built on this principle. The Promised Land belongs to those who need it most, surely. Charlie will you campaign . Will you get involved . Bono i really cant do that. I feel like we have to stand up and be counted. In some kind of luminous way and figure out a way. Charlie let me talk about the 10th anniversary, red. And a couple philanthropy things. A new push to electrify africa. Which i think is a great idea. I was thinking about u. N. Died. I remember you came to sit here at this table, talking about debt forgiveness. Bono that was at this table, that is true. Charlie you came here, selling the idea of debt forgiveness. How long ago was that . Bono a long time ago. Could be 16 years ago. Charlie weve got countries in africa that cannot get on with their development because they have an overwhelming debt. The only way to deal with it is to find a way to forgive them so they can use those resources. Bono 120 billion later, and 46 million africans going to school. That is where the money saved was spent. Isnt that incredible . Charlie it is unbelievable. What is electrify africa . Bono what is going on now, the narrative of development has changed. It has changed the world is , getting excited about the continent. By 2050, it will be twice the population of china. Worlds be a third of the at youth. Imagine that, culture, music. People are saying, how can we be part of this rising africa narrative . President obama has been keen on partnering with, you know, bringing power to africa. Mark zuckerberg is trying to bring connectivity charlie the internet. Bono there are a lot of people. I think, actually, there is about to emerge a new security and development narrative. Started in africa but partnered in europe and america that is going to change the game with regards to africa. Certainly north africa. And into the middle east. With the refugee crisis, people are looking, what can we do here . There is a phenomena, the three extremes. You have extreme poverty, extreme climate, and extreme ideology. And this unholy trinity is where all the problems are. From northern mali, northern nigeria, across sudan, all the way to somalia. And as a geological phenomenon, you could say it goes all the way to afghanistan. Parched earth, people scraping by to make a living, hard, hard life. And we need to understand this and be there. African lea