This was supposed to be the quietly, the calming. There may be a little evidence of that at the white house under general kelly. But these transcripts have exploded. We had so many readers of these transcripts this morning when they first broke. Remarkable reporting by my colleague, greg miller who has , been a stalwart throughout the year as part of our National Security team. But the portrayal of the new president , as you said, being unhappy, concerned about his own image, talking at cross purposes with two leaders of allies of neighboring mexico and australia. I mean, they are remarkable documents of what the Trump Presidency started as, and for so long has continued as. , charlie take me through what you found remarkable about these documents. Dan on the call with the mexican president , what was so fascinating was trumps recognition that his promise that, not only would he build the wall, but that mexico would pay for it, was something that was never going to happen. And what he was seeking was some accommodation with the mexican president to just quit talking about it, to quit saying we will never pay for your wall. He said at this may be the least one point, important thing we are talking about, but the most important politically. I think he was probably correct in that judgment about it. And that call went on and on and on about that. There was a lot about his desire to put a border tax on, his desire to be very tough on mexico on trade. But at its heart, it was in a sense pleading for an agreement , to take the payment of the wall, and it was going to underwrite the cost of the wall off the dialogue as quickly as possible. And in some ways, he succeeded on that. Very little talk in recent times about mexico paying for that wall. And in fact, his big challenge right now is Getting Congress to begin to pay for the wall, let alone mexico. Charlie they keep asking questions as to what appropriations will be used for what . Dan right. This will come up when everybody returns from the recess in september and they have to get the budget together. That is his big challenge. On the call with the australian Prime Minister, i think what was so fascinating on that, charlie was the way in which they were , talking past one another. The australian Prime Minister was trying to explain to the new president , the sort of basis of the arrangement or agreement made with the Obama Administration to accept some of the refugees in detention camps in australia. And trump not wanting to have anything to do with it. The conversation went back and forth with assurances that you dont necessarily have to take any of these people, you can vet them. We have vetted them. We know who they are. They are being kept in detention camps because they came by boat , and we are trying to discourage smugglers from bringing refugees into our country. But the president was only concerned it would make him look weak as a new president , as somebody who had instituted the travel ban. So, this conversation was this circular conversation in which the president became more and more frustrated. And clearly, the australian Prime Minister was more and more frustrated. And it kind of ended abruptly with no agreement to the agreement. Charlie here is what the president of the United States said to the Prime Minister of australia. Malcolm, why is this so important . I do not understand. This is going to kill me. I am the worlds greatest person who does not want to let people into the country. I mean we have never heard the , president talk like this in public and now we have it in , private transcripts obtained. Yes. Obtained. I think one thing we should all that nice is the readouts all administrations gift of calls between a president and the head of government or head of state of another country are pretty wellsanitized. We know that there are tougher conversations that go on that we only perhaps hear about but never see. Here we have the actual documentary evidence. And so, it is a remarkable inside view of what really goes on with these conversations are not friendly and cordial. To say these were candid and frank, which is the diplomatic nicety to say this was tough, is an understatement. They were certainly candid and frank. But to see the frustration of the new president of the United States with two friendly countries, just tells you about his own mindset as he was coming in, as to the way he saw the world the way he saw himself, the way he saw what he was believing he had to live up to as a result of the campaign. And he was getting no real accommodation from either of those two leaders. Charlie in fact, sometimes being mildly or gently corrected. More than mildly. [laughter] dan more than mildly and oh, gently, certainly by the australian Prime Minister. He kept pushing back and pushing back and pushing back. As i say, it was as if the president , President Trump, was not absorbing what he was saying. He could never get to the point of saying, oh, i understand. We will take a look at this. Happens, itif this will make me look weak. It will be terrible. I cant do this. This was a terrible agreement obama made, obama made lots of terrible agreements, and on and on. It was in a sense the donald trump that lisi see in public sometimes, or certainly that we see through his tweets. But it is interesting, and probably a little bit alarming, that it is that kind of conversation betty has in a private conversation with a foreign leader kind of conversation that hes has in a private conversation with a foreign leader. Charlie he endorses a dramatic reduction in legal immigration. Dan yes. And after saying he was planning to get an would get tough on illegal immigration, but not necessarily shrinking legal immigration. I think there is no real evidence that this legislation has significant support on capitol hill. And we have heard in the aftermath of what the president it, anderday endorsing embracing it, is a lot of pushback from capitol hill. On the other hand, it is the kind of signal President Trump regularly and consistently sends to the people who voted for him, and particularly for people who voted for him on the America First agenda, or the get tough on immigration agenda. Whether this goes anywhere or not, it is a reembrace of the voters who believe he is speaking for me because i am upset about the way the immigration process has worked, legal or illegal. Charlie for someone who is a nonpolitician, he seems to understand very well the idea that you always have to protect your base. Dan i think that is instinctive with him. And i think, you know, it is one of the reasons he was far more than aful as a candidate lot of traditional politicians and observers and journalists ever expected. He tapped into something, as we know, almost from the start of his campaign two years ago. And i think people, a, did not appreciate it, and b, certainly underestimated it. He has had that instinctive bond with a part of the country that remains very strong. Those visceral feelings he has, he is able to express as president and continue to play to that base. You know, there is some slippage and his Approval Ratings over the last few weeks. Those Approval Ratings have gone down. Even some of the supporters who form that base, there is a new quinnipiac poll in which he is down somewhat with white, noncollege educated voters. But i think when he does this kind of thing it does reinforce , with a lot of those voters that he is thinking of them and on their side. Charlie then there is the other legislation that he looks at, which is showing the conflicts he is having with congress on the russian sanctions. Russia, iran, and one other. He said hed assigned he said he signed it reluctantly in the name of National Unity suggesting constitutional questions and that he had real disagreements with it. Dan well, we know he had disagreements with it. We know he had to sign it. It was passed so overwhelmingly by congress. And it was passed in essence as a way to tie his hands, and congress effectively did that and forced him to sign it. His signing statement made clear his disagreements with parts of it, suggesting parts of it are unconstitutional. But also just the pique he showed in the personal statement that he made. I built a great company. I can make better deals anybody. Congress should not get in my way. And what we saw in an earlymorning tweet, was him saying our relationship with , russia is at an alltime low and congress is to blame for that. And we have seen in the last couple of days, the russians suggesting he has been overwhelmed and overrun by the political establishment in washington. And obviously, all of that is kind of, you know, bothering him. It is eating away at him. So, what we saw yesterday in the signing of this was a signing with a great deal of dissatisfaction. And charlie, i think it is one measure, one indicator, that there is the beginning of some more concerted pushback on the part not only of democrats, put them aside at this point on that, but among republicans. Republicans are in a variety of ways saying to donald trump, we are going to do what we think is best. We are the legislative branch, we are a coequal branch, and we are going to express ourselves. Am times it will be in , and sometimes it will be in , disagreement with what you want to hear from us. Charlie also in the health care bill, the failure to repeal and replace. Dan yes, and his frustration with that is enormous. Has had a variety of things to say about it. Most consistently, recently trying to get congress to come back and do something about it. And we have seen, and a remarkable way and we have seen, in a remarkable way members of congress basically , saying to the white house we will do the business we want to do. Senator mcconnell has no desire to come back and deal with this issue at this point. He tried and failed. He does not want to try and fail again. Theres other important legislative business that will have to be done when they return from recess. The debt ceiling being one and getting a budget being another. Those are two significant things that have to be done. But the president eats away at this notion that congress should deal with health care. We use this word again. It is kind of remarkable the degree to which he has yet to understand or accept the ways of the legislative process and how a president can constructively affect that. And we have not been able, so far, to see him learn that lesson, and turn himself into a more constructive force, operating with members of his own party on the hill. And we are now seeing the reaction to that. Charlie robert mueller, special counsel, has impaneled a grand jury in washington to investigate russias interference with the election. They say it is growing in intensity and entering a new phase. Dan it is obviously a very significant development. Perhaps not that surprising considering the seriousness we believe that mr. Mueller was bringing to this task, but nonetheless, smart lawyers would recognize this means there is a broad investigation underway. Investigationn that will require subpoenas, and depositions, from who knows how many People Associated with the president or beyond . And this is not going to be something that is going to be wrapped up by thanksgiving. The impanelment of the grand jury suggests this will be a long process. Now, we all assumed this would be a fairly lengthy process, and assumed bob mueller wants to move it as expeditiously as possible for the good of the president , and the good of the country, to try to get this resolved as quickly as possible. But that is not necessarily possible given the various threads he seems to be looking at. Again, we dont know everything he is looking at, but there have been enough hints in some of the information that has come out , and some of the people he has hired, that he is looking at the russian hacking, and possible collusion, or collaboration, or knowledge of what the russians were doing by members of the Trump Campaign or Trump Associates that he is perhaps looking at the financial dealings of people around trump. We know he has been investigating general flynn. So, there are any number of rings that will fall under the rubric of this grand jury. And if you are the president of the United States these it all as a witchhunt, this has to be a concern development. Charlie i think john kelly said the president would not fire Jeff Sessions after the president heard from a lot of republicans you better not do that. Secondly, you had a lot of people in congress say if he tried to fire him and appoint a new attorney general that would be a very tough road. Dan he has clearly been put on notice that either of those steps would bring him nothing but grief from capitol hill. , with Jeff Sessions, who has a first, lot of friends on capitol hill who rose to his defense when the president began to attack him in tweets and statements. The reaction was swift and very clear to the president , a clear warning do not take that step. Similarly with any effort to try to scuttle the investigation by bob mueller. He is hearing from people that that would be a very dangerous step for him. There is some legislation brewing on the hill that would tie his hands if he tried to do that. And i think it is a signal to to let thishas investigation run its course, and expect and accept the consequences. It may be that the final conclusions do not particularly do him any damage. We have to leave open the possibility, but every time she steps into something, it creates more questions about what is he worried about . Charlie dan balz, thank you so much. Charlie, thank you so much. Charlie we will be right back. Charlie as dan balz mentioned in my conversation with him, this is a extraordinary story of access to conversations with the president of the United States, and the Prime Minister of australia, and also the president of mexico. Greg miller, the reporter who broke the story, joins me from washington. Here at the table is dan senor. A former advisor to mid rodney mitt romney. Im pleased to have both on the program. Greg, first of all, what was the first reaction you had when you discovered these transcripts . When you realized you had access to them, and what they said . Greg so we had written stories , earlier in the year about the calls. We had gotten word they were really chaotic, intense, and heated. We sort of knew that going in. To me the thing that jumped out right away was reading through the mexico call, and what a distance there was between what trump had said publicly about mexico im going to build a wall in mexico is going to pay for it, and what he was telling the mexican president in his first call. It went completely in the opposite direction. Charlie basically what did he , say in the call to the president of mexico . Amounts ll at one point in the call, he says this is probably the least important thing we are talking about but the most important thing politically. Charlie where did the transcripts of these calls come how were where and they edited or prepared . Who has access to them . Greg when a president has a conversation with a foreign leader, he has his own white house staff listening and there are scribbling notes throughout the conversation. And afterwards, they produce a transcript of swords. It is not verbatim the way a Court Reporter might put them together from a recording, but it is very close approximations. So, it is an accurate reflection of the playbyplay of that call. And those become memos that are circulated to policy people throughout the white house. Charlie the white house has said the president is always looking to make the best deals for the american people. In every conversation with foreign leaders, he is direct and forceful in his determination to put america and americans first. Is this likely to lead to a different impression of President Trump than most americans already had . I think it reinforces some of our impressions about that. You read through some of the language we use from an official familiar with the calls when they say he is always putting America First. But i think you also read these transcripts of these conversations, and he is always putting donald trump first. He is referring to himself repeatedly throughout these calls. Everything is viewed through the prism of, are you making me look good or bad . If it is the latter, i am angry about it. Charlie dan, you have been around politics a while. What were your impressions . Dan look, this is not the first time that a president has spoken candidly with a foreign leader, and spoken in terms about policies that are different from what the president says in public. That is not shocking. The crassness and starkness of the way he does it is probably a little unnerving, but it is not shocking. Me, in worrisome to addition to what it reveals about President Trump, and how committed he is to these policies and some of the things , greg says, is this is unprecedented in terms of the leak. And the idea that foreign leaders around the world now know when they are having a and with they are having a candid conversation with the president they could be reading not only , in the front pages of the Washington Post that front pages of newspapers and their own countries about those conversations. I mean, these conversations, in some respect, reflect not dwell on the leaders to home trump was speaking to. It looks like he is trying to push them around. Charlie but at the same time, he is not. Dan i am just saying, if you are the president of mexico or the press, or any of these president ist the speaking to, you do not want these conversations in your press. Look, the u. S. President s relationships with these leaders is asymmetrical. What they say to our president , and what they say about our president matters a lot less in , our politics than what the u. S. President says about them or to them in their politics. ,so, i just think having these conversations broadcast out like this will make a lot of these leaders around the world a lot more charlie circumspect. Dan uneasy about talking to the president candidly. That is a hu