Kim, thanks for joining us. Kim hello. Emily it has been a year since you have spoken publically. You have been under house arrest. What are the rules now . Where can and cant you go . Kim well, i am not allowed to leave the country. I have to report to the police twice a week that i am still here. Emily you had your freedom until the day of that raid, right . Kim yes. Emily take me back to the day of the raid. Kim 72 cops, heavily armed with assault rifles, storming the property. Some of them arriving in helicopters, some of them arriving with attack dogs. Completely bizarre scene. My staff had to lie with their face on the ground, guns pointed at them. My little kids crying because they were scared. My wife separated from the children. And, when they got to me, they beat me up. The rest is history. Emily there is a description of you standing there with a sawedoff shotgun. Kim you know, the Police Officer that made that story up in the press conference, he had to admit later in court that he made it up. I was sitting there, calm, with my hands in the air. Emily unarmed . Kim completely unarmed. Emily what did they take . Kim thousands of servers, offline, that hosted the data of millions of users that have used our web services. Emily most of your assets are still frozen. Kim they are now saying everything they have seized here now belongs to the u. S. Government. Emily i know you have said you are broke. Would you call yourself broke now . Kim we recently had a judgment from the court releasing 4. 6 million for legal fees and living expenses. So at the moment, if that judgment is not appealed, financially, i am in a better position now than i was a couple of weeks ago. Emily have you thought about moving to a cheaper place . Kim yeah, but that would also mean it is kind of my last stand, fighting for my castle, for my home. You know, i am also trying to send a message to them and show them i am not going to fold over. You know, that i am going to fight back. Emily right now you are wanted by the u. S. Government in the biggest copyright case in history. The charges include racketeering, money laundering, wire fraud, copyright infringement. You face decades in prison. Just how much time in prison are you facing . Kim 88 years. Emily 88 years. They say you owe 175 million. Is that correct . Kim they say that the profit that megaupload made and all of that should belong to hollywood. Emily yet, in this particular case, you have yet to be found guilty of anything. What is the myth of kim dotcom, and what is the reality . Kim i am absolutely not legendary. You know. I am who i am. I live my life the way i like. I do not limit myself or my thinking. Usually, when i have an idea and i have a plan, then i see it through. You know. Emily you were born kim schmitz in west germany. Kim that is right. Emily what kind of kid were you . Kim i was a naughty kid. My mother, i am so sorry. [laughter] im really sorry. I was a bad kid. Once i had my first computer, everything changed for me. I just started questioning everything. Why go to school . This is the future. This is what i want to do. Emily how did you become a hacker . Kim when i was in my teens and i had my first modem, i was so excited to be able to chat with people halfway around the globe that shared the same interests, hacking. It was so exciting to go into Computer Systems and find out things that you are not supposed to see. Its a bit of an adventure. Emily you said you hacked the pentagon, citibank, nasa. That you obtained top secret documents on saddam hussein, tracked down osama bin ladens bank accounts. Kim back in the day, after 9 11, which really affected me, i felt deeply unhappy about that. I was trying to do something, to be part of the effort to stop people from ever doing that again. Emily you did all those things . All that is true . Kim some i did not do myself. There were other things i did. Emily some people would say there is no proof. Kim well, there is no proof. [laughter] emily when and why did you change your name to kim dotcom . Kim i bought the domain, kim. Com. I thought it would be great if my name was kim dotcom, so if anyone wants to know anything about me, i do not have to hand them a Business Card or anything. They can just go to my website. It is all there. Emily take me back to the start of megaupload. Kim i was a street racer. And i always made great videos about that and shared that in the street racing community, on the forums. The file sizes kept getting bigger and bigger, and you could not send large files over email, so i wanted to solve that problem by creating a server where you can upload a file, get a unique link, and then email the link to the people you know. It was just a convenient solution to a problem that is still relevant today. Emily how quickly did it grow . Kim instantly. It was massive. Within weeks, we had to buy additional hardware, additional servers. No single penny was spent on advertising. The thing just got its own life. Emily at its peak, 50 million daily users . Kim yes. Emily billions of files. 48,000 file transfers a minute. Is that about right . Kim yeah. Emily 4 of internet traffic. Kim thats right. Emily in its prime, how much of megauploads content was legitimate and how much of it was pirated . Kim the vast majority of files on megaupload are completely legitimate. There is no difference between megaupload and Services Like dropbox or the new mega today. You can use it for good things and you can use it for bad things. You can buy a knife and stab someone in the heart, or you can use it to slice your bread. You know, youre not throwing the knife maker into jail because someone is murdering someone with a knife. Emily copyright holders say you robbed them of hundreds of millions of dollars. Kim well, how can i have done that if i, myself, have never uploaded a single copyright file onto megaupload and shared it . Emily but did you try hard enough to stop it . Kim we followed the law. When we got copyright notices, we took them down. But in addition to that, we gave over 150 copyright holders direct access to our servers to delete links they did not like, that were infringing on their copyright. Emily you also you had a rewards program. So you paid users to upload content. They made more money the more popular their content was. What is popular . Movies that have not been released, music that is free. In that case, werent you complicit . Kim i do not think so. Because if you look at our rewards rules, which were right there at the front page, it says you cannot upload stuff that does not belong to you. We limited the rewards program to files smaller than 100 megabytes. The moment you upload some sort of rip of a movie, you do not make a penny. Emily do you believe in copyright, first of all . Kim i believe in copyright, but i do not believe in copyright extremism. Extremism is if you are a hollywood studio, and you release your content in one country first, in the United States, and then roll it out over a couple of months in other countries around the world and expect the Internet Community in all of these Different Countries to wait for the release. They have Just Launched netflix here in new zealand. The catalog of content that you can download is roughly 10 of what they offer in the United States. That is completely unfair. And because people do not get that access, they are looking for the stuff elsewhere. So it is a problem created by the content creators. I am not responsible for that. If they would have an offering that has all content globally available for a fair price on any device, piracy would shrink into insignificance. But they are not doing it. Emily but if it is illegal and you are not trying hard enough to take it down or you do not take it down, doesnt that mean what you are doing is illegal too . Kim no. I have tried everything. We were just a Small Company based in hong kong. You know . We didnt catch up yet with the latest technologies, and we were not even given an opportunity to do that. Emily do you think the artist who makes the song, tv show, the movie, the videogame creator do those people deserve to be paid . Kim absolutely. Yes. Emily so if those people deserve to be paid, yet people are accessing that content illegally, how do you find a balance . Kim where is the problem . I do not see artists starving. Emily so just because they are making money, does that make it is fair that others should be able to access their content illegally . Kim no, i do not think that is what i am trying to say. You know, i just think everyone should look at it a bit more realistically. All of these these hollywood moguls are living in mansions that are bigger than mine. It is the greed that is dominating this debate. It is not like anyone is starving, right . The movie industry makes more money year after year. Society that wants to have access to this content, but hollywood does not make it available. I am just a tiny piece in the middle of that. You know . I am not responsible for that. Emily you think the government is trying to make an example out of you . Kim absolutely. Yes. Emily president obama, in saying that piracy is a matter of national security, is saying the innovation and creativity and stuff the American People create is our biggest asset. So, why should we allow it to be stolen . Kim that argument does not include the question, why dont we make this great Product Available to everyone in an easy format . Actually, if hollywood had some smart people working for them, they would probably have the biggest Internet Company on the planet. Emily so explain to me how this great Internet Company out of hollywood would work. Kim well, it is quite simple. If you have a content platform that is, say, owned by all these different studios combined, and they would make their Product Available, their entire catalog, everything, at a fixed monthly fee for everyone to access around the world, they would have the biggest internet success in history. I can understand the dilemma, but to make me responsible for that is really outrageous. Emily what is your message for president obama . Kim what is my message . Well, it would have been nice if he delivered the change. It would have been nice if he did not spy on the world population. Im disappointed in his presidency and i am disappointed in the u. S. Government for the way they are behaving around the world now. This case is a small example of how arrogant the u. S. Government has become around the world. Emily tell me about your relationship with edward snowden. Emily you were arrested for the first time when you were 18. Kim yeah. Emily you were convicted of Insider Trading later. Kim yeah. Emily why should we trust you now . Many people think you are the worlds biggest pirate. A whitecollar criminal. Kim i am an easy target. When i was a young man, i made some mistakes. I was a hacker. I never hurt anybody. You know . I hacked into systems, because i was an adventurer. I wanted to find out if aliens really exist. But i have grown. I am a family man. I have five kids. I am different. I am not a criminal. Emily tell me about mega. What is this new business that you are working on . Kim after the raid, i spent a lot of time thinking about the intrusion of privacy. Because in my own case, they have used the nsa to spy on me. The Prime Minister of new zealand has apologized for that, because they have done that illegally. I created a Cloud Storage website where people who upload their files can be 100 sure their data is fully encrypted, that no government can access it. That we, as a service provider, cannot access their private data. Emily so even you cannot see what is in the files . Kim that is correct. Emily so the nsa could not get in. Kim no. They would get a lot of garbage. Emily what is to stop this from becoming a bank for criminals . Kim it is your right to privacy. I think that right overrules anything else. Emily is there anything you would have done differently . Kim absolutely. Emily like what . Kim if anyone from the u. S. Government had reached out to us and said, well, we have a problem here. We never got any warning like that. You know . Emily tell me about your relationship with edward snowden. Kim i think he is a hero. I admire him for his courage. He will be remembered in history as one of the great people of our time. Emily what is he up to now . Kim he is happy, he is fine. He is in russia. I think he is pleased that the debate has been triggered, based on the good things he has done. Especially to americans. Emily when it comes to china, iran, islamic terrorists, the United States government, what are you most worried about when it comes to spying, hacking . Kim i am worried about the situation in ukraine. I think putin is someone i would be very careful with. I think that obama has done a good thing in negotiating with iran and trying to find a resolution to this nuclear standoff. Emily what about some of the other countries . Like north korea and sony . Should we be concerned about north korea . Kim well, you do not really believe that north korea hacked sony. I do not believe that for a minute. Emily who did, then . Kim well, some Sophisticated Group that has an interest in what hollywood is doing around the world. Emily you do not think it is a group that has ties to north korea . Kim i do not think so. I do not think north korea has the capabilities. It is just such a beautiful story for the u. S. Government to put this onto north korea. It is more likely that it was some insider at sony that was disgruntled. Emily i know you are particularly worried about microsoft. Kim obviously, Windows Software is the most interesting target for the u. S. Government, because everyone is using it. If you can just use Windows Update to install a backdoor on some target, you know, then that is the most convenient way to get access to everything that happens on an individuals computer or on Government Computers or bank computers. And it is just the logical extension of what they have already done. Emily you are saying Julian Assange is going to be hillarys Worst Nightmare . Kim i think so. Emily what about Julian Assange . What is your relationship with him . Kim what Julian Assange is doing is putting a spotlight on all these secrets. Emily how often do you talk to him . Kim [laughs] why is that important to you . Emily i am curious. Kim look, i like these guys. You know . I look up to them. I think they are very brave. They are going through a hard time. They chose to do that for the betterment of all of us. So, yeah, i love to talk to them. Emily so, you said you would bring the Internet Party to the u. S. In 2016. Why . What is your goal . Kim because i think there is a big group of people out there that disagree with what is going on, you know . They want to have their privacy back. They want to have internet freedom. Emily you tweeted that you were going to be hillarys Worst Nightmare in 2016. How so . Kim well, i have to say it is probably more julian. [laughs] but i am aware of some of the things that are going to be roadblocks for her. So, if i can provide some transparency with these people and make them part of what the Internet Party stands for, then i will be happy to do that. Emily you are saying Julian Assange is going to be hillarys Worst Nightmare in 2016. Kim i think so. Yeah. Emily how so . Kim well, he has access to information. Emily what information . Kim i do not know the specifics. Emily why hillary in particular . Kim well, hillary hates julian. She is just an adversary of, i think, internet freedom. Emily she signed your extradition request. Kim yes. Emily so you have a bone to pick with her. Kim you know the crazy thing is i actually like hillary. I like obama. It is so crazy that all of this happened. Emily so the Internet Party has not worked out in new zealand. As i understand it, it was kind of a flop. How do you resurrect that . Kim a lot of times, when i created something new, it was a bit ahead of its time. You know . I think a Political Party is something that grows over time. Emily if you are not extradited, what is next for you . Kim i think this case is going to go on for a very long time. I have prepared myself for that, mentally. This will be a fight for a very long time. Emily what do you want your legacy to be . Kim i am working on something new that i am really excited about. It is called meganet. It is an alternative internet. I want to create a new internet that gives people the power over the Network Rather than governments and corporations. Emily the people have the power rather than the company. Kim the way meganet works, it turns every mobile device into a routerserver and allows devices to communicate with each other to create a network that still utilizes the internet as a pipe, but fully encrypted. It is an internet that is completely run by the people, for the people, with all the idle capacity on your mobile devices carrying the network. Emily how do you want to be remembered . Kim at the end, i want my children to look back at whatever there is to learn about me and be proud of me. Emily do you think they will be . Kim yes. Emily kim dotcom, thank you so much for joining us. It has been a fascinating conversation indeed. Kim thank you. Emily thank you. Ashlee one of the basic truths of the human condition is that people love to float, and theres no better place to float than here at the dead sea in israel, where Large Mammals can achieve buoyancy. There is a ritual to doing it the right way. You need to cover yourself with mud, lather up, and relax with a