Welcome to squawk alley for a monday morning, john ford, kayla is back, great to have you back. Our top story this morning, forget a town hall, more like a town brawl in st. Louis last night, where nothing apparently was off limits in the second president ial debate between donald trump and Hillary Clinton. I think its clear to anyone who heard it that it represents exactly who he is. If you look at bill clinton, far worse. Mine are words and his was action. Its just awfully good that someone with the temperament of donald trump is not in charge of the law in our country. Because youd be in jail. Secretary clinton there has never been anything like it, and were going to have a special prosecutor. We have never in the history of our country been in a situation where an adversary, a foreign power, is working so hard to influence the outcome of the election. They are doing it to try to influence the election for donald trump. She wont say the name and president obama wont say the name. But the name is there. Its radical islamic terror. Tweeting happens to be a modern day form of communication. You can like it or not like it. A lot to get to on the debate last night. Well begin with our own john harwood in st. Louis. John . Reporter carl, last nights debate was raw, it was personal, it was a full contact battle of the kind that we have never seen before in a National President ial debate. Sometimes that contact was high, like this exchange over the economy. We are back on the right track. He would send us back into recession with his tax plan. Secretary clinton, were moving to an audience question, were almost out of time. Mr. Trump, were moving to an audience question. Since 1929 mr. Trump, secretary clinton, we want to get to the audience. Thank you very much, both of you. Now, other times, to use Michelle Obamas highlow formulation, they went low, as in this firstever that ive ever heard suggestion by one candidate to another that they would imprison the loser of the election if they became president. Take a listen. Its just awfully good that someone with the temperament of donald trump is not in charge of the law in our country. Because youd be in jail. Secretary clinton now, who came out on top, take a look at these quick polls that were taken after the debate, and ill give you the caveat that it sometimes takes a couple of days for the full effect of the debate to filter into the electorate, but cnn, 57 to 34 . Watchers of the debate said Hillary Clinton won. Yougov said Hillary Clinton won but by a narrower margin, 47 to 42, so we have a situation both sides were speaking to their base. Hillary clinton tried to rally Democratic Coalition with a lot of women, minority voters, collegeeducated voters. Donald trump went for his base, which is noncollege white voters and tried to get them excited after a very tough weekend when he was in free fall over that tape. Both of them seem to achieve their objectives. The difference is, that Hillary Clintons ahead in this race and donald trump, if hes going to be president , needs to make something happen to change that. John, thank you for setting us up, our john harwood in st. Louis. Joining us with more reaction, keith boykin and informal Trump Campaign adviser and cnbc contributor larry kudlow. Good morning to you. You spoke this morning, larry, on squawk about how youre absorbing the last 72 hours. Where are you . Well, where i am is extremely unhappy with mr. Trumps vile remarks 11 years ago, and i think some of that is spilled over into this campaign. And i dont like it one bit, never have. I report it as i see it, and i dont like it. On the other hand, i think he did bottom. He was a stock that finally found the bottom. I think the hemorrhaging has stopped. He was reendorsed by his running mate mike pence. That was very much up in the air over the weekend. Now, can he come back and win, i dont know. Its an uphill battle. I dont know about the early polls, but mrs. Clinton definitely has the upper hand. I remain in favor of mr. Trumps Overall Economic and tax cut plan. Yes, i helped draft it, among others. I wish he would sell it better. I mean, hes got the right stuff in there, but, you know, tax cuts are good because they put more money in your pocket, because you get more take home pay, as reagan used to say, because you had more incentives to invest and start a new business. I dont think you can tax your way to prosperity regarding mrs. Clinton, but ill just say one last thing, its not a concession to my friend keith, its my own personal view. I watched that thing last night, and one thing stuck out at me. I disagree with mrs. Clintons policies, i do, thats not breaking news, but she had at moments a pretty good sense of optimism. And im an optimistic guy. It came out, and donald, i think he maybe is an optimist in the long run, but hes so negative and were going to heck, going to heck, and he didnt say, but we can fix this and have an optimistic, you know, reaganist message. Optimists win, pessimists lose. In 2012 barack obama was the optimist and mitt romney was the pessimist and i think thats one reason why mr. Obama won, so i would just warn gop on that. Optimism wins. Im an optimist, have been many, many years, its good, i like it. The differing messages coming out of each part, but the trump we saw last night was high energy. He had some good humor, and he seemed to be relatively on message, compared to his prior debate performance. Does that mean hes becoming a more formidable competitor to clinton in future faceoffs . It means that we keep judging donald trump by a lower and lower standard. The bar has gotten so pathetically low that all he has to do is not sniffle too much, and we think that hes becoming an acceptable candidate. I mean, last night what we saw was stunning. We saw a Major Party Nominee for president of the United States dismiss allegations of Sexual Assault as mere locker room talk. We saw the same candidate admit that for 20 years he did not pay federal income taxes, and we saw that same candidate threaten to jail his political opponent. We have never seen anything like this in american politics. Perhaps thats a reason why Foreign Policy magazine today endorsed Hillary Clinton. Its first ever endorsement of any candidate for office, and said that donald trump was the worst Major Party Nominee of any party in u. S. History. Weve never seen anything like this before. You know, im sorry, go ahead. I was just going to ask you, larry, we talk about market share, we talk about business. Confidence is important. Discipline of an executive, of the executive branch has enormous influence, whether its has to do with regulatory power, whether it has to do with statements made to and about foreign governments. Given that donald trump bragged about committing Sexual Assault and then said, no, he was just lying to billy bush, called it locker room talk, which is probably an insult to athletes. Sends a questionable message to young people who are in locker rooms nowadays about whats appropriate in that space. Are you prepared, are you going to reendorse him at some point, given the misgivings you had over the weekend . Is there something you could hear from him at this point that would give you a different level of confidence over the sort of temperament and leader that he would be . Well, i believe what he said in those tapes was vile. Not going to defend him, in fact, im going to criticize him heavily. I believe some of the things he said on the campaign trail about women and other groups have been vile. I dont like it one bit. Ive been in a bunch of locker rooms, ive played varsity tennis in prep school and college. I didnt say you might see a pretty woman and might Say Something nice about her, but this other stuff is beyond the pale, so, no, i wont defend that. I will defend his tax cut plan, i believe he has a pro growth tax cut plan and regulatory plan. Last night i thought he did reasonably well, maybe compared to low standards, keith has a point there. He did well on tax cuts, on health care, on energy. I think mrs. Clinton is very vulnerable to all that. As i said earlier, id like to see him sell his prosperity programs a lot better. You know, i worked for a guy, reagan, who knew how to sell and persuade. So id like to see him do much more of that. I think he took a big risk attacking bill clinton and hillary. I think he threaded that needle. I think his temperament last night was pretty good, and it helped him. And unfortunately, i just say this in personal terms, you know, i dont wish ill on anybody. Its about policies, not personalities for me, but she was deflated, and you could see that. And it affected the rest of the debate. But i will say this, four weeks left, all right, i will say, as i did this morning, i intend to vote for mr. Trump, but if he continues to drop into these incredible rabbit holes, i will write in mike pence, okay, i will not vote for mrs. Clinton because my disagreements with her, not personal, my disagreements on policy with her are very large. Trumps campaign will live for another day. Thats basically what happened last night, as i said, as a stock looking for bottom, i think he found the bottom, but that doesnt mean hes going to climb back to new alltime highs. You know, if you look back at history, i think it took the titanic two hours and 40 minutes before it sank into the ocean. What were seeing here is the collapse of the Trump Campaign, and possibly even the Republican Party, if they dont jump ship. What we saw over the weekend was that most of the crew members, dozens of crew members, are abandoning ship or running for the life boats. And the people who arent, you know, the Rudy Giulianis and chris christies, i think they will share a redeemable shame for sticking by a candidate who has not only no chance of winning, but no chance of bringing any sort of respect to his campaign or to the party in the remaining 29 days. I just think its deplorable what were seeing right now, and i dont think its going to get any better. I wouldnt write his candidacy off. We have a month. Crazy year, so we cant predict the unpredictable, but i do want to pick up something that keith is implying. Keith and i have known each other for a long time. I dont know what it is about the United States in 2016. But i bemoan the loss of civility between people, all right, ive known this guy, we disagree on a lot of things. That doesnt mean we sit around insulting each other on the air. The same thing as my pal Austan Goolsbee and others, all right, including republicans, who weve had battles over this Trump Campaign. I beg for some thought about returning to civility, where we can have debates, we can have discussions without insulting, without personalizing it. I just think this is a problem in modern day american culture, its a problem in modern day politics. Can we not be civil, even when we disagree . I believe we can, and i just think thats missing from this whole story. One last question, i agree with you kpleecompletely, but w dont you tell this to donald trump . Hes the least civil candidate ive seen in any Major Party Nominee in my entire lifetime, and ive been following politics closely for decades. Im assuming you have, larry, you have said that. Well, i always keep my personal advice personal, but i will say this, there are no heros here. Mrs. Clinton is not a hero, mr. Trump is not a hero, and in the Republican Debate some of that stuff was incredible. Ive been around a while, ive never seen anything like it. I dont think its hopeless as keith does, but i agree she has the upper hand. Im making a different point, the public needs some information, some education. The public needs to find a way out. The economy has underperformed, not since 1929, but since world war ii. The economy has underperformed, everybody agrees on that. The question is, what are you going to do about that . And on and on. But can we not have this as a civil discussion . Thats all im asking. Can we not show some respect for each other . You and i dont always see things the same way, but weve been friends for 20 years. Larry, that starts by you distancing yourself from this candidate. You have to say clearly that Donald Trumps behavior is not the same as Hillary Clintons. Thats a false equivalent. We never had a candidate before that accuses his o foent of being involved in the assassination of another president , who engages in locker room talk and dismisses it the way this guy does, and you have defended him even before this tape came out. You knew this, larry, and you continued to defend him. Its time for you, larry, as a person who i respect, to stand up and say you will not tolerate this, you will call for donald trump to suspend his campaign or at least end this behavior. No, i wont. It is bringing down his campaign and the Republican Party. All right, i hear you. You are a good person, you know better, larry. I have defended his economic plan. You cannot defend his behavior. I cannot. But i think mrs. Clinton is also nowhere near equivalent. I think shes said some really bad things on both sides. I think theres its like theres something in the water this year. I dont know what it is. I dont want to go this far. Look, i do a radio show on saturdays for a couple three hours and i prepare for it friday night, and i prepare for it saturday morning. I was pretty close to the edge. I wouldnt acknowledge that. I was pretty close to the edge. My friend mike pence, who ive known for many, many, many years refused to back trump on that, as many others, paul ryan, but i just sort of said, look, im going to make my criticism. I think this is worse than locker room humor. I get that. I think mrs. Clintons been pretty rough, too, shes said a lot of things she shouldnt have said, deplorables and what not. I dont want to go through that. Im trying to find the upside to the downside. Yes, im a tax Cutting Supply sider and trump is there and she is not. Okay, thats not breaking news. Im just raising the bigger point, which i agree with you. Weve got to reintroduce civility and calmness and respect to each other, so we can have our policy debates, we can make america a better place, okay. And thats all i want. Just make america i want it back at the top. I want it to be number one. Id go back to reagan sitting on the hill, weve had failures everywhere, but we can fix this. Ive been in administration that fixed it. We just got to get that done, and i will agree with you here, sir, were not getting it done. I agree with you. Sounds like youre going to write in pence, im not saying thats what youre going to do, but sure sounds like it. Well, you know me, todays monday. We have four more weeks to go. I hope mr. Trump gets his act together, because i do agree with his economic policy. I had a hand in it, but i agree with it, i think its pro growth, i dont think mrs. Clintons is. As were speaking, politico reporting speaker ryan telling House Republicans he wont defend trump and will focus the next 29 days on keeping the house. Very important, by the way, because from about friday afternoon through sunday afternoon, i think pence and ryan were essentially about to jump ship with catastrophic consequences. Sounds like ryan still is. Him saying he wont defend trump, not like hes been defending trump on anything up to this point, and that language about focusing on house echoes some of the rumors over the weekend about what the rnc was prepared to do. So it sounds a bit more like a warning shot than any particular new news. I agree with that. I think trumps performance last night, which was much better than expectations, he had good points, very good points, saved that, but your bigger point with respect to paul ryan, also an old and dear friend, they are going to focus on the down ticket. They want to keep the house and try to keep the senate. I think they have a good chance of keeping the house, i think the senate is a real tossup, so im being realistic here, but youre going to see that. You have a lot of senators jumping ship, i understand that, they have races to run. The money story, i think, is going to be filtered towards the house and senate candidates, and, you know, keith, i do not want to nationalize health care. I just dont. Id rather cut taxes than raise them. I cant help myself. You know i believe that. Yeah, surprising thing, i agree with you on the civility point. We disagree on the policy point, but im not confident that donald trump completely agrees with you on the policy issues, because hes been a remarkably undisciplined policy candidate and hes talked about tax cuts and tax reductions. Hes talked about raising taxes on the high income earners, at the same time hes talked about lowering taxes on high income earners and on all americans. I dont know that hes articulated consistent policy positions. And going back to johns point, seems to me the one thing that people in this building, the one thing the markets in general care about is some sort of certainty. Donald trump is giving us opportunities for four years or eight years of uncertainty, and i dont think the world is ready for that. I dont think the markets are ready for that, i dont think nato is ready for that, i dont think our allies are ready for that. I think were looking at potential disaster if donald trump is elected president , and i think in your heart of hearts, larry, you know that, too. Well, look, i like therapy sessions. Were having interventions. I especially like group therapy, i found it very helpful. No, i believe in my private conversations and so forth that mr. Trump is a tax Cutting Supply sider. I believe he is for small businesses. I think he is for lower regulatory cuts across the board. Ive always had some problems with him on trade. I agree about enforcement of trade deals, but i find myself much more of a free trader than he is. Well just see. I believe hes sincere. As i said earlier, i like to see him sell his Economic Growth plans. I do not agree with mrs. Clinton. Look, i