up for the va's health care in the last ten years and haven't had an appointment. the chairman, chairman jeff miller tonight said those are 64,000 vets who's fallen through the cracks. it is just crazy and the va is also reporting that it is finding evidence of wrongdoing by its own employees, finding that pressures -- i'm going to read it from the report. pressures were placed on schedulers to utilize unofficial lists or engage in inappropriate practices in order to make waiting times appear more favorable. more favorable, anderson, to get bonuses and when we talk about unofficial lists we're talking about secret lists. that's what those are. >> i mean, 64,000 people, that's a huge crack to fall through. that's not just a little -- you know, is this a criminal investigation at this point? >> reporter: everybody is dancing around this. the inspector general tonight says the troubles at the va will end when senior leadership, senior management is either fired or prosecuted.