they see rudy giuliani as sort of the president's bag man, you know, traveling around, you know, trying to hatch these various schemes going on? >> yeah. this is the thing that worries me very deeply about this whole scandal, aside from the content of it and what we're investigating and learning, is the message it sends around the world that maybe the state department doesn't really speak for the united states foreign policy. and maybe mike pompeo doesn't really have the influence and can speak for president trump. now, i don't think that's true, but that's sort of the message. i'm sure foreign leaders are scratching their heads wondering, should we schedule a meeting with giuliani? is that the way to get in good with donald trump? is that just a more efficient, faster way than going through the state department bureaucracy. it also hamstrings our diplomats around the world. they're out there representing american foreign policy interests and they're being undermined by this scandal. >> it seems there's a third role