experience, do they work? >> no. there really even shouldn't be a debate about this. the results are clear, have long been known. the fbi has known this. anyone who is involved in this knows this. the measures that were used by the cia and the u.s. military, post 9/11 actually were torture techniques that we were subjected to in our training so that we would know what happens to you when you are tortured, not as an interrogation tool to extract useful information. it's just clear, there's no debate. senator mccain is completely right. he knows firsthand. >> did you think at the time that there would be repercussions? when you were in the midst of this, i'm just curious. i can imagine if you're having a crisis in confidence in what's going on around you, you would be conflicted. how did you respond at the time.