this is about national security and broader issues that impact every american. >> with this new information coming out, caroline, i think a key question at this moment is are you surprised that john bolton hasn't been called yet to testify? >> i think he absolutely will be. he's been saying under the array darr as alex pointed out that this guy is no spring chicken. he's been around the block. for him to be outraged and use the type of language he used, not only is it impermissible, it's criminal really. >> and no raging anti-trump liberal either. >> exactly. he had his eyes opened when he entered that administration. i think that's really interesting -- there's a lot of concentric circles overlapping and so many things to point it. but fiona hill's testimony, saying she did not believe her ouster was with merit. and one of the things we saw last week in these two giuliani