ambassador sondland and donald trump. and they were undermining the official u.s. foreign policy in pursuit of totally illicit objectives. >> why is it shadow? if the president is saying in one way or another explicitly or implicitly, you do what rudy says, there's nothing shadow about it. he has his text messages, he's walking into the oval office with rex tillerson, asking for prisoner swaps. it was all done in plain daylight. >> except rudy giuliani was never a public employee. he was acting as the president's private lawyer and he was perhaps acting as an independent