to fight back in a sign of just how complicated all of this is we're now seeing images from within to show armored vehicles advancing forward under a russian flag. how is this possible? well, according to ukrainian media, pro-russian forces have taken control of these vehicles. according to russian media, the ukrainian officers an soldiers have effectively flipped sides over to the pro-russian side. so all very fast moving, very murky, very complex as we wait to see precisely what the next stage will be in this military operation against these pro-russian forces. chris, back to you. >> phil, thank you very much. joining us on the giant map is farmer u.s. assistant secretary of state, jamie, thanks for being with us. let's do a little demystifying here first. pro-russian forces. what is the chance that pro-russian forces are really just thinly masked russian forces on the ground? >> there's probably two types of russian forces on the ground.