has the launching device, if you will, again, paints a very clear picture. a picture that the government here is trying to put across almost since the get go, almost for the whole 24 hours since the plane was shot down. hearing the confirmation of that from moscow and hearing what moscow intends to do with those devices, will it pass them to the expected chain of command, the expected government responsibility ukraine. all of that is unclear. until we hear from the russian authorities on this confirming this information, it seems at the moment it's just more that we have from the ukrainian authorities that needs further inquiring and investigation, john. >> all right, nic, thanks so much. let's on this very point bring in rick francona. rick, what do you make of what you're hearing from nic on the