there may be questions where it doesn't apply. they have to produce documents. the fifth amendment has much narrower application to documents. and then if the committee determines that it's a legitimate invocation of the constitutional privilege, committee can go to court and can get an immunity order to force testimony if the testimony is important, or if the committee thinks it's illegitimate for whatever reason like you wrote a book, roger stone has talked a lot about these episodes. others invoking the fifth have gone on steve bannon's podcast to talk about what happened. if the committee determines that it was illegitimate, it can proceed with contempt. so the committee has tools to probe what's happening and to respond. >> norm, great to have you here. thank you so much. we are following new developments now in two major trials. right now closing arguments are under way in the jussie smollett