system's role in holding enablers to account. >> right. i mean, the message is loud and clear, a willful participant, not seemingly, but a willful participant. and then i wonder, too, deborah, because lawyers now for the british royal prince andrew are trying to get a related civil case against him dismissed. how does maxwell's conviction impact the outlook for that case? >> i think that case will go forward. maxwell's convictions, you know, certainly doesn't stand as an obstacle and if anything outside of the courtroom, right, there's been this validation of the women who have come forward, that may not directly impact the case, the civil case, but i do think it gives some momentum to this -- to this move to hold alleged abusers in this case to account. >> and then, vicky, real quick, you mentioned those incongruities and we know that ghislaine maxwell is trying to