>> lets me bring in dr. jameson. professor of environmental studies and philosophy. it's a debate whether i was interviewing the hunter a month ago or seeing this giraffe story, different countries have different rules. we saw the story in japan as well last week. lots of different cultures treat different animals in different ways. why shouldn't the danish frankly be able to treat giraffes the way they wish to if they believe it's the right way to treat them? >> i think you're raising a good point. i think we all here do object to the way that the danes have treated marius. but american zoos have their own problems with surplus animals. even though our breeding is much better controlled than they are in europe, there still is a leakage of animals from zoos into places where we don't want them to go. and there's no american zoo as far as i know that's willing to actually take lifetime responsibility for any animal thought breeds from cradle to grave.