>> right. >> it's sort of more -- it's a little bit more nimble than trumpism and, therefore, it's very, very, very appealing to broad swaths of the conservative base. >> you say he legitimizes right-wing conspiracy theories and dodges when you try to nail him down about it. it sounds like he was very slippery in this interview. >> listen, for somebody who loves to defend his right to ask questions, he sure hates to answer them. >> and when you asked him if he's been vaccinated, how did he react? >> he let us this wild cackle and pivoted into how dare you ask me a personal question like that. i said you can ask me whatever you want. he asked me about my hiv status and then asked me about my recent sexual activity, so that was an interesting twist. >> so he always turns it around, always plays the victim.